login   |    register
Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
Hosted by Darren Baker
AFV annouces M60A2 on the way
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,301 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 05:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm excited to build it, but sad at the same time because i'm the only sap that decided to go all out for accuracy on the Tamiya dog.




Don't belittle yourself- I built a heavily-modified M60A2 some years ago. If I had a dollar for every kit that I've invested un-told hours and expensive up-grades and conversions on in my lifetime, I'd be very wealthy! Every time that I undertake such an effort, invariably some plastic model manufacturing company will come out with what I've just done, and for A LOT LESS MONEY, TO BOOT! Half of the time, my "corrected" model is STILL better than what is supposedly now "the best kit available" of same...

You've done a GREAT JOB with what you've had to work with, so if I were you, I wouldn't feel bad about what you've created.

The sad part about the various plastic kit manufacturers coming out with new kits of stuff that we've all spent many labors and expensive after-market items on to improve the old "dogs", is that many times, we will STILL have to modify, correct, and convert the NEW KIT because the manufacturers STILL MANAGED TO SCREW UP THE LATEST KIT!!!

Even the vaunted ASUKA/TASCA M4-series kits, in the hands of experienced and discerning modellers, we know that many of us will discard some of these fine kits' parts, and wind up with after-market turrets, hulls, suspensions, tracks, etc, after all is said and done. Why? Because the model manufacturers invariably neglect to produce the special "pet-favorites" that we desire to include in our collections, or we are just dis-satisfied with what comes in the box.

Hence, we change, re-work and improve what comes in the box to our own standards of perfection- And that is CERTAINLY nothing to regret, when the manufacturers come out with new kits of the very same models that we've spent so much time, effort and money on...

Jmarles
Visit this Community
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: November 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,103 posts
Armorama: 923 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 06:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

So is this a reboxing from the kit I remember seeing in the early 90's? or something new? Either way time for a "star-ship".

Dan



I'm thinking that you're remembering the "Starship" that you saw in the early '90s was the TAMIYA M60A2? I don't know that I've EVER seen HOBBY FAN/AFV CLUB do a re-boxing of someone else' kit. Re-boxings are usually TAMIYA TERRITORY and charging correspondingly HIGHER PRICES- Example: ITALERI, HASEGAWA and FINEMOLDS kits with TAMIYA logos and new art-work on the box top, such as the HASEGAWA 1/48 Hurricane Mk.I(?), ITALERI 1/48 Ar.196 and FINEMOLDS' 1/35 Type 95 "HA-GO". That's the kind of thing that I stay away from...

However, there MUST be other companies that are putting their name on stuff that was originally made by someone else. I can't remember any others at the moment...



*****AFV did buy the Skybow line if Dodges and Jeeps...does that count as a rebox...since they own the moukds? Hmmm!
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,301 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Friday, June 26, 2015 - 12:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

So is this a reboxing from the kit I remember seeing in the early 90's? or something new? Either way time for a "star-ship".

Dan



I'm thinking that you're remembering the "Starship" that you saw in the early '90s was the TAMIYA M60A2? I don't know that I've EVER seen HOBBY FAN/AFV CLUB do a re-boxing of someone else' kit. Re-boxings are usually TAMIYA TERRITORY and charging correspondingly HIGHER PRICES- Example: ITALERI, HASEGAWA and FINEMOLDS kits with TAMIYA logos and new art-work on the box top, such as the HASEGAWA 1/48 Hurricane Mk.I(?), ITALERI 1/48 Ar.196 and FINEMOLDS' 1/35 Type 95 "HA-GO". That's the kind of thing that I stay away from...

However, there MUST be other companies that are putting their name on stuff that was originally made by someone else. I can't remember any others at the moment...



*****AFV did buy the Skybow line if Dodges and Jeeps...does that count as a rebox...since they own the moukds? Hmmm!



Well, that is something else again... I was referring to, for instance, TAMIYA obtaining a license to produce a HASEGAWA, FINEMOLDS or ITALERI kit, put it in a new box with new artwork, and consequently charging a much HIGHER PRICE. I could understand a SLIGHTLY higher price, but TAMIYA's exorbitant pricing with these kind of re-boxings border on piracy!

I think that AFV CLUB's buying SKYBOW and releasing the SKYBOW WC-series Dodge Trucks under the AFV CLUB label is entirely legal, but they didn't boost their new pricing of the old SKYBOW kits by very much...
sneakypete
Visit this Community
Armed Forces Pacific, United States
Joined: June 10, 2006
KitMaker: 149 posts
Armorama: 73 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2015 - 10:19 AM UTC
Sorry I didn't mean to open a "re-boxing" or why do they wait til im done fixing the old kit debate, just curious if it would be up to todays standards or something from the early 90's in details. Im no rivet counter, at least on anything but vehicles I have operated, so one will likely find its way into my collection just based on the merits of a cool turret alone. have a great weekend and Happy modeling everyone.

Dan
TankSGT
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: July 25, 2006
KitMaker: 1,139 posts
Armorama: 946 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2015 - 03:01 PM UTC
Dan have you read any of the threads on AFVs M60A1 kit or any of the reviews?

I was an M60 tanker and it is an awesome kit up to the latest industry standards, in fact it raised the bar. If their A2 kit is based on the M60A1 and I can't conceive that it isn't, it should be a must have for anyone with an interest in Modern US Armor.

Tom
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,301 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 - 03:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Dan have you read any of the threads on AFVs M60A1 kit or any of the reviews?

I was an M60 tanker and it is an awesome kit up to the latest industry standards, in fact it raised the bar. If their A2 kit is based on the M60A1 and I can't conceive that it isn't, it should be a must have for anyone with an interest in Modern US Armor.

Tom



I'm sure that that would be the most logical way for AFV CLUB to fly with a new M60A2 kit- Use the M60A1 for a starting point, and substitute the turret with a new M60A2 turret, plus other new parts where required. Would like to see AFV CLUB do an M60, and an M60A3, as well...
ossie262
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: August 31, 2009
KitMaker: 256 posts
Armorama: 250 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2015 - 10:50 PM UTC
Hi Everyone

lets just say they had a lot of in putt into the M60A2 , some real time measurements as well .
yes i did help , cant wait to see the kit.
First USA tank i saw on active service in Germany on exercise with them.
AFV Club knew about the shape of in respect that the sides are different in shape and the top is not what it seems.
it was a stumbling Block for years but some one measured one for them.
hope it helps
Ossie
TankSGT
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: July 25, 2006
KitMaker: 1,139 posts
Armorama: 946 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 01:33 AM UTC
Great news Ossie, I'm glad to see a company that reaches out to the community for help in making accurate kits. I saw my first A2s in Fort Knox while in training and then again on REFORGER. Hopefully it will be out soon. Its also nice to hear from you, hope all is well.

Tom
Bergun
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: February 16, 2014
KitMaker: 47 posts
Armorama: 47 posts
Posted: Monday, July 06, 2015 - 07:22 PM UTC
I'm an old M60A1/A3 tanker from back in the early 80s as well. I'm glad that any "M60" kits are coming out. By chance, will it have the molded nylon ballistic shields for the main gun and the TC's .50 cal??

Being just the average builder, any M60 or M48 kit needs to ballistic nylon shields or at least a good after market source for both the main gun and the M85 .50 cal... BTW, is there any current aftermarket nylon ballistic being offered now for either the Tamiya or Academy M60A1/A3 kits?? I would like one that is leveled straight for a "SABOT" round pose... Don't care if it clears the back deck, I just like the ready for action look... I can't make one that looks semi- good to save my life!!

After a 20 year career in the Army, I still have a deep love for the M60 series of tanks... Yes, the M1 is bad-@zz, but I've always went back to my first love!!

As for the A2s, I only saw a few at Fort Knox while in Basic and AIT.... I was trained on the M60A3 and when I got to Germany, I think they finally pulled the last ones out of Germany around mid 1980.

On a side note, I wish that somebody would come out with an injected mold, plastic M114 APC kit with the M2 .50 cal mount and rear M60 MG mount. That would be super cool with the M60A2 "Starship" tank!!
18Bravo
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 6,528 posts
Armorama: 5,500 posts
Posted: Monday, July 06, 2015 - 07:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text


On a side note, I wish that somebody would come out with an injected mold, plastic M114 APC kit with the M2 .50 cal mount and rear M60 MG mount. That would be super cool with the M60A2 "Starship" tank!!



Yeah, but with the dollar doing well, now is the time to order the resin one from Accurate Armour. I'm about to place my usual large annual order. In fact, anyone who wants to save on shipping, PM me.
panzergator
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: October 26, 2015
KitMaker: 8 posts
Armorama: 8 posts
Posted: Monday, October 26, 2015 - 02:05 AM UTC
I arrived in 1-32ARMOR in July of 1975. My company was the second company in Europe to receive the M60A2 in the same month. The first was B Company. When I arrived, the scout platoon was just completing its annual test, after which the M114A1s were turned in for M113A1s. The M114 did not serve with the M60A2 in 3AD. Maybe they did in 7th Corps, but they were gone in 5th Corps. Just a bit of info. I like the idea if the M114, but they were of extremely limited utility.
panzergator
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: October 26, 2015
KitMaker: 8 posts
Armorama: 8 posts
Posted: Monday, October 26, 2015 - 02:08 AM UTC
For those who haven't heard, the Academy A2 is out and it is a big improvement over the Tamiya model. Dragon's will be out in December. Looking forward to that one. Have to hunt down AFV's. It has been a long, miserable wait. Hoping Dragon will take on the M60. They WILL have an M48 gasser with the original deck.
panzergator
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: October 26, 2015
KitMaker: 8 posts
Armorama: 8 posts
Posted: Monday, October 26, 2015 - 03:12 AM UTC
On the Academy M60A2, the illustrations are taken from the pics of the vehicle in the Littlefield collection. The M60A2 bumper markings indicate a vehicle belonging to 3rd Battalion, 32nd Armor. I picked up the A2 when it was issued as a platoon leader in Alpha Company, FIRST Battalion, 32nd Armor. I also later served in 3-32 Armor. Both battalions were located in Friedberg at Ray Barracks. Third Battalion had the M60A1(RISE). FIRST Battalion had the A2. You should correct the bumper markings on your model. Also, when we picked up the tanks, the initial bumper markings were in white. The tanks were in overall olive green. At some point in the following six months, we obtained the black paint for the MERDC camouflage, however the other colors were not available until after I left. We applied some black areas and markings were changed to black, as well. We also got the first rotating amber warning lights, affixed them to the left rear turret basket, and ran the wire into the turret through the antenna mount to connect to the electrical system. As the wire wore due to vibration, keying the radio produced some alarming and abrupt adjustments to azimuth and elevation in turret and gun. The wire connection was immediately re-routed throughout the battalion. The A2s were issued to us with the side-loading air-cleaner boxes, but the modification to top-loaders was applied in the motor pool immediately on issue, so the tanks were never used in Europe with the side-loaders. I can't speak for Stateside. Also, within a couple of months, due to German community concerns, a small metal cover was secured over the laser rangefinder, held in place by a small brass padlock. My tank had the old-style barrel with the bore evacuator. The vents were sealed, although the bore evacuator cover was left in place, welded on. Our battalion had tanks with and without the bore evacuator. Also upon issue, we installed a later-style phone box over the right rear fender. The phone box rested on a small platform attached to the hull rather than on the fender. The fenders took quite a beating in the field and were useless as a mount for the phone box. If you do an interior, we actually started out with M73 Coax, but quickly changed to M219. We carried 13 missiles and the rest were HEAT. I never heard the term "Starship." I did hear and use some other "colorful" names applied, but the Starship moniker came along after my time. We at least had less trouble than the A1s in the forest and towns traversing because the barrel was so much shorter.
panzergator
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: October 26, 2015
KitMaker: 8 posts
Armorama: 8 posts
Posted: Monday, October 26, 2015 - 03:43 AM UTC
More bumper corrections. Keep in mind I'm 66 now and was 25 then, and there's been a lot of water under the bridge. The correct bumper code on the port side would read 3(triangle)1(triangle)32. Translated, that would be 3rd Armored Division, 1st Battalion, 32nd Regiment. Tanks were designated by platoon and tank number on the starboard side. The third platoon leader's tank was 36. The platoon sergeant's tank was 34. The remaining tanks were 32, 33, and 35. The bumper number would be the company followed by the number, such as A-36. At some later point, the platoon leaders went back to using 1 instead of 6 - A31, but I don't remember when. Both company headquarters tanks, the platoon leaders' tanks, and the platoon sergeants' tanks had two antennas, the remainder just one. 1-32 Armor searchlight covers featured a skull and crossbones with "BANDITS" beneath. There were three tanks in the battalion headquarters, with the bn commander's tank designated HQ-66.

I THINK the other 3AD M60A2 battalion was in 1st Brigade in Kirch Gons, 3-33Armor. The pics you see of tanks in MERDC on the net are usually from 3ID up on Schweinfurt. I don't know when they applied it to the A2s, but over in 3-32, we went through a major application project in 1977 for our A1(RISE).

That about cleans out my memory cache for the subject. I can't swear to the accuracy, but that is how I remember it.
18Bravo
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 6,528 posts
Armorama: 5,500 posts
Posted: Monday, October 26, 2015 - 04:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text



That about cleans out my memory cache for the subject. I can't swear to the accuracy, but that is how I remember it.




That sounds like a SOF maxim if I ever heard one.
MrNeil
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: November 01, 2005
KitMaker: 198 posts
Armorama: 194 posts
Posted: Monday, October 26, 2015 - 04:16 AM UTC
Jim, thanks for sharing your memories. These kinds of insights are terrific in getting an 'as used' view rather than an 'as built' view of the vehicles.

I'm not a big post-war modeler but the M60A2 has been a favorite of mine ever since I saw the old Tamiya kit back in my youth. I'll definitely be picking up the AFV Club kit.

N
TankCarl
Visit this Community
Rhode Island, United States
Joined: May 10, 2002
KitMaker: 3,564 posts
Armorama: 2,765 posts
Posted: Monday, October 26, 2015 - 05:00 AM UTC
I am planning on buying all of the new production, So I will build and compare them to each other.
I was a gunner on an A2,in 76-78.We drew them from Vilseck in January 1976.Ours came with the side loading air cleaners. We had 3 styles of gun tubes in our company / battalion,bore evacuator, no evacuator, and no evacuator,but mounting bosses on the gun tube. We had the M219 coax from the start. We also had the metal plate over the laser opening from the beginning.,and would unlock that padlock, and bolt the plate at right angles to the opening,when driving around during gunnery. A thin piece of styrene,will duplicate this. it must not cover the lower opening,which was the telescope aperture.
corsair924
Visit this Community
New Hampshire, United States
Joined: August 11, 2008
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 319 posts
Posted: Monday, October 26, 2015 - 05:55 AM UTC
And just bought the Tamyia, well at least its an easy build
panzergator
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: October 26, 2015
KitMaker: 8 posts
Armorama: 8 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 28, 2015 - 02:11 AM UTC
Nice looking model. A detail note - We painted the external fire extinguisher pull box (the small box above the headlights on the port side front slope red and stenciled in white "FIRST SHOT" and "SECOND SHOT" in small letters in front of the opening with arrows pointing to the pull handles. This isn't something you would easily see in pics and museum pieces today. Because the MERDC camo was so flat and hard to see at night, we were required to attach the rotating amber warning light to the turret, but we also put a strip of reflective tape along the aft end of each fender and along the curve of the fender on each side.
panzergator
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: October 26, 2015
KitMaker: 8 posts
Armorama: 8 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 28, 2015 - 04:28 PM UTC
In reviewing some photos acquired from the internet a few years back, I found a couple by a fellow named Tim Reiber of 1-32 Armor M60A2s in MERDC camouflage. Obviously, after I left the unit, they did apply the pattern. A2s only served for about 5 years before being replaced by the M60A3.

Many good photos can be found on the internet simply by searching for tank you want to model. Be imaginative. Search on tank designation, unit, duty stations, Cold War, Grafenwohr, Hohenfels, Wildflecken, tank gunnery, Reforger, things like that. You can search for US Army Cold War Germany. There are several sites that list all the Cold War posts in Germany.
salt6
Visit this Community
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: February 17, 2002
KitMaker: 770 posts
Armorama: 548 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 29, 2015 - 10:19 PM UTC
FT HOOD about 1975/76.