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Armor/AFV: Contests
This group is home to our various contests, promotions and drawings.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Am I Advanced?
Pilgrim
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England - North, United Kingdom
Joined: November 20, 2004
KitMaker: 516 posts
Armorama: 417 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 08:57 PM UTC
I'm seeking a little bit of advice about future entries to MoM.

I've entered a few times and never got more than about 5 votes until March when I got third place with my Churchill VII. I "threw everything but the kitchen sink" at that model: adding after market barrel, PE, scratch interior, stowage, etc. If we'd had categories I'd have entered that particular build in the "advanced" class.

However, compared to the overall standard on here I think my modelling skills are right about the mean, so "intermediate".

My next completed build is built OOB (except for the barrel which is after market solely because I broke the kit parts. It's a long story but I had to rescue the build from the bin because at one stage I thought I'd knackered it beyond redemption ). So really that's a "beginning" build...

Which class would you enter it in? Do we decide on class based on the kit(s) and techniques used or on the builder's experience and talent? Does a complex paint scheme matter? Should all resin kits be in the "advanced" class?

I know the rules state it's on the entrant's honour, but sometimes it's difficult to judge our own work, so maybe a debate might help provide us all with some guidance.


Sean
capnjock
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United States
Joined: May 19, 2003
KitMaker: 860 posts
Armorama: 411 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 10:31 PM UTC
I consider myself an 'intermediate' because my skills are not yet up to the level that I would consider advanced. This is brought out by the contests I attend. Good enough to place but not a consistant silver or gold receiver. Just as a matter of interest, I also place my stuff in the 'open' category whether it is OOB or not.
capnjock
Jamesite
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United Kingdom
Joined: December 05, 2006
KitMaker: 2,208 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 30, 2007 - 02:54 PM UTC
Its very difficult to catergorise modeling skills because there are some guys at the top of the hobby who are so 'advanced' it's unbeleivable. I think you upgrade to intermediate from basic quickly after a few kits, meaning you can put a kit together OOB, perhaps with a few adjustments yourself and give it a good paint and weathering job.
I'd say advanced was using considerable amounts of aftermarket parts and doing a multi-step paint and weathering job.
That then leaves those guys that can scratchbuild a tiger out of a matchbox and a rubber glove if they had to and still make it look better than anything OOB, these guys need their own 'super-human' catergory that the rest of us can aspire to.
What I wouldn't do is get too caught up in comparing your skills to everyone else, build for yourself and what makes you happy, by all means learn from others and contribute to others techniques, but I wouldn't lose sleep over which skills catergory you fall into!
Kuno-Von-Dodenburg
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England - North, United Kingdom
Joined: February 20, 2007
KitMaker: 1,453 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 30, 2007 - 03:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Its very difficult to catergorise modeling skills because there are some guys at the top of the hobby who are so 'advanced' it's unbeleivable ... those guys that can scratchbuild a tiger out of a matchbox and a rubber glove if they had to and still make it look better than anything OOB, these guys need their own 'super-human' catergory that the rest of us can aspire to.

What I wouldn't do is get too caught up in comparing your skills to everyone else, build for yourself and what makes you happy, by all means learn from others and contribute to others techniques, but I wouldn't lose sleep over which skills catergory you fall into!



I have to agree with that 100%.

BUILD FOR YOURSELF and ENJOY.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - i find attending modelling expos and looking at the "super-human" efforts from the top guys both soul-destroying and inspiring at the same time.

Soul-destroying because I'm usually happy with my own builds until I start comparing my work with that of people like Chris Mrosko, Douglas Lee, MIG and the rest - at which point the words "why do I even bother??!!" invariably pop into my head.

But inspiring because these guys are proof of just what it's possible to achieve if you're willing to stick at it.

Terms like "advanced" and "intermediate" are all relative anyway. It all depends the yardstick that you happen to be measuring yourself against.
barv
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: December 24, 2004
KitMaker: 1,594 posts
Armorama: 973 posts
Posted: Monday, April 30, 2007 - 09:01 PM UTC


Quoted Text

That then leaves those guys that can scratchbuild a tiger out of a matchbox and a rubber glove if they had to and still make it look better than anything OOB, these guys need their own 'super-human' catergory that the rest of us can aspire to.


...NAH!!!......... NOT me .!!!.I'm just a that does funny things with bits of plastic and anything handy ---'CAUSE..... I LIKE IT !!

Quoted Text

BUILD FOR YOURSELF and ENJOY.

...and that should be the "BOTTOM LINE"
Some day I will either be *CLASSIFIED* or*CERTIFIED*
by someone in the hobby ..BUT ..."Frankly ...I don't givea Damn".........so I Will always do MY OWN THING
Why should you have to worry about being "classified"--if you feel that you are a "beginner "--Good !!---if you think "intermediate"--Bravo!!--and if you feel you can say --"advanced "--then "GO FOR IT ".........WHO has the right to say who is and who is not...only the guy /gal at the blunt end of the knife that cut and shaped the"lump"
YOU DECIDE!!
aye
BARV
(GOSMG)










210cav
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,143 posts
Armorama: 4,567 posts
Posted: Monday, April 30, 2007 - 10:55 PM UTC
Sean-- you have more courage than I would. The quality of modeling skills in the MoM contest leaves me way out in the cold. I build them because I enjoy doing it and admire those who do it much better than I do. This is a great group. I know we had some folks who think they can shoot APDS rounds at anyone over anything, but in reality they miss their targets. If you like putting your work before others, continue to do so. I would not classify myself in any other category other than "enjoys the hobby." I post my work when I think it will aid my efforts. You workmanship look fine.
So, continue to submit them and do well
DJ
troubble27
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: October 10, 2003
KitMaker: 783 posts
Armorama: 637 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 09:29 AM UTC
I think most of you guys who are technically calling yourselves intermediate are really more "advanced". I just think there are others here who are so "well advanced" we often compare our work to theirs. Just look at the first model you ever built. You'll call yourself advanced in about s split second LOL

Gary

PS - that churchill was a beut!
Brigandine
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Dunedin, New Zealand
Joined: July 12, 2006
KitMaker: 552 posts
Armorama: 312 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 10:25 AM UTC
The people who make the high-class models that most of us can only drool over bring all sorts of skills to their hobby that often come from outside modelling; eg; some of those who paint those incredible large scale figures in Historicus Forma and Millitary Modelling Magazine might have an arts degree. That and an inate sense of colour balance and shading which some of us can only envy...

IPMS Dunedin has one member who scratchbuilds military equipment, all to 1:9 scale; being an engineer helps him a lot.

When you look at these guys http://www.wetaworkshop.co.nz/ the skill levels are breathtaking. It just so happens that many of them started out building models. Takes a lot of work and practice.

As others have said, a hobby should be an enjoyable recreational activity. I stopped building aircraft over a year ago. Problem was I have built so many I became bored. Nowadays I get a kick out of trying to improve my standards with every military vehicle I build. I don't know if I've quite succeeded (if I had a digital camera I'd post more photos here); but I'm enjoying the change and the new challenges.

Henk
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: August 07, 2004
KitMaker: 6,391 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 02:51 PM UTC
For the purpose of discussion, and to aid you in a decision as to how to enter your models, the following seem to be reasonable criteria.

Beginner - Building simple kits, straight out of the box, no alterations or multimedia. Basic (single colour) paint finish, with no weathering. Decals (if used) likely to be silvered as no gloss coat or setting solution have been used.

Intermediate - Building complicated plastic kits, including limited multimedia/after market. (Resin, Photoetch etc). Clean build, no seam lines, glue marks, wheels/tracks level etc. Small and simple alterations/corrections to base kit. Paint finish of higher standard, including post or pre shading, and multiple colour finish (camouflage). Basic weathering (dry brushing, pigments and powders) applied. All decals apllied without silvering.

Advanced - All mediums used, including full resin kits. Major scratch building conversions/corrections to base kit. Multi stage paint and weathering finish, including oils and washes/filters. Researched subject, to depict an actual vehicle accurately.

Off course these skills can overlap, i.e. somebody can scratchbuild an entire interior, but can't paint. Or somebody who is an absolute wizard with the airbrush, but has never bothered to build anything other than basic, oob model kits. The individual 'skill' level is always difficult to judge, unless a builder uses all the criteria, consistently with each model.
I think that the vast majority of builders fall in the 'Intermediate' class, in various stages towards 'Advanced'. I would class myself as Intermediate, on my better days edging towards 'Advanced'. For example, I have won several Gold and Silver Awards in open competition, but have yet to win (anytging :-) ) a 1-2-3 style competition. So while my models are good, they lack that edge that makes them 'Advanced' .