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stugiiif
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Posted: Friday, March 07, 2003 - 06:07 PM UTC
well i'm off and painting to say the least, i have the interior sprayed out in light green and then will head to the brown and black stuff!!! i'll post some pics soon. stug
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Posted: Friday, March 07, 2003 - 09:01 PM UTC
:-) TankCarl
Where can I get these ECHO scissors in the UK?

:-) Roger
Looking good, I would wash everything, like you say it will tie everything together.
As far as Future goes, I would say yes. 2 reasons: the thinner in you wash may lift the paint, if it's not protected. (What thinner do you use for washes?) On matt surfaces the thinner tends to spread out and stain all over, sort of washing in the minute valleys created by the matt paint. Having said this i never used to put Future on first, because I knew nothing about it. I did, always have some sort of problem, sometime only minor, but I don't now. Thats why I would suggest using Future.
PE belts. Now I did say let me know that you have them before painting the seat, somewhere, I'm sure I did. However as you have already painted and fitted the seat we will have to deal with it as is. I would normally attache the PE belts to the seat before painting. This is because if you do it after painting you are gluing to the paint, which will inveriably give way and your belt is detached with a blob of CA + paint sticking to it, and a bear patch on the seat. Just to clear this up, When I attach the belts to the seat I leave them sticking up, out of the way so I can paint the seat, I then paint the belts. Because they are firmly attached I can now fashion them realistically onto the seat. So Roger, I would suggest scraping away paint where the belts attache, to fit them. It might be beneficial to bend them to shape against the seat, by a dry run first. The Sutton harness shoulder straps are anchored at 2 points. The main straps anchor to the floor behind the seat (PE straps aren't long enough, clue to the back of the seat), the adjusting straps, the ones on top go through the bulkhead and anchor within the fuselage. What I do is bring the ends, of the adjusting straps together, add a length if fine stiff wire, painted steel, and pass that down the fuselage. (i'm trying to get pics). Don't sweat it though, you can simply attach them to the seat, I'm not sur what the Eduard instructions say.

:-) Tim
Looking good. I didn't really think you had glued it on backwards :-)

:-) Stug
Looking forward to the pics.

Mal

Jim added a lost little lamb-post....

:-) Here's the pic:

Mal
stugiiif
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Posted: Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 02:16 AM UTC
well here are my spit cockpit pics i'm going to use the decal for the belts as i don't have PE buckles!! so here it goes..............




the cockpit had to be assembled in the fuselage half so i went ahaed and glued them together, i guess thats what i get for useing an Academy kit for a tamiya group build hehehehehehe stug
Holdfast
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Posted: Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 03:55 AM UTC
:-) Looking damn good Steve. What colours did you use for the seat? :-)
Mal
stugiiif
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Posted: Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 04:19 AM UTC
The paint is Tamiya XF-10 flat brown, on of the many colours i keep around for tank tracks! oops!!!! this is a spitfire how did that "dirt" color end up in a spitfire???? hehehehe It was the closest i could come to the colours that were mentioned before and the light is Gunze interior green (RAF) 364!!! there you go guys!! stug
Favorisio
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Posted: Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 10:17 AM UTC
Mal

Sorry. Got too excited about starting, forgot about the seat situation. The seat is painted but not glued, so not too bad, I hope.

There are 2 types in the Eduard set, I better show you the kit and the instructions....




About the instrument panel.... Instructions have only the centre piece painted black, but Tim and Stug both have the whole panel black. Which is more correct?

I have cut out the pilots access door, quite successfully I think, I presume the open door is attached later, after construction of the main fusilage?

Washes.... I have no problem using future and then respraying with a mat laquer afterwards. I use Humbrol Enamel thinner for enamel wash, and English Distilled Turpentine for an oil wash, which do you think would be best?

Not got anything done today - mission of mercy to Lancaster and hospital visiting, but should get a good go at things tomorrow.

Roger
TwistedFate
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Posted: Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 11:14 AM UTC
Oh boy. I hope tonights model building goes better than this mornings activities. 1) I was hanging with a friend this AM and totally forgot there was a dart tourny I wanted to enter. 2) I get home and go to clean up my web storage discovered that it wouldn't let me delete files, add files, rename files, anything to modify a file (I could download though, ). Verizon redid my web space resulting in a total deletion of all files. So I hope I got all of the important ones back up. I don't use it for a web site, but it stores all of my siggies for the various boards along with several of my buddies, and the in progress pics I posted in this thread, and a few other files I need here and there.

Roger: I have never done a Pilot Access panel before, but I will be attaching mine after I paint the main camoflage when I attach the open canopy. I think it will be easier to mask and paint that way. As for the console, all the pics I saw had the entire top half black. Stug is building the Academy kit, the instructions may have told him to do it that way.

Anyway, enough whining. I'm going to work on my Spit. With any luck, it will have wings and look like an airplane by the time I get to the store and buy new batteries for my camera.
Favorisio
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Posted: Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 11:45 AM UTC
Tim, I wouldn't mind seeoing a pic of the inside of the fusilage before you assemble the 2 halves, if it's not too late. I just want to check I am detailing enough of the interior, it's a bit hard to tell from the instructions.

Thanks for the confirmation anbout the console, I should be able to get that done tomorrow now.

Roger
TwistedFate
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Posted: Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 12:47 PM UTC
Here ya go. The pic isn't too good cause my flash was dying and I had to use photoshop to add some "exposure" to it. Most of it is just like the instructions, except I lightly dry-brushed silver over some of the larget pieces, and painted the wire detail on the walls. On the left half near the bottom is what looks like a little lever, I painted the lever handle silver and the box it is connected to black. Just above that is a little bottle looking thing that I painted red.

Holdfast
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Posted: Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 01:05 AM UTC
:-) Roger
The belts to use are the ones on right of the frame. The other ones are for late mark Spits.
They look pretty good. Where you attache the belts to the seat it might be a good idea to carefully scrape away the paint.

Quoted Text

About the instrument panel.... Instructions have only the centre piece painted black, but Tim and Stug both have the whole panel black. Which is more correct?


The whole of the panel is black, looks like they only highlighted the blind flying panel.


Quoted Text

I have cut out the pilots access door, quite successfully I think, I presume the open door is attached later, after construction of the main fusilage?


Yes, correct. The raised line running diagonaly across the door is a crow bar, quite often painted red, but it could be black or yellow.


Quoted Text

Washes.... I have no problem using future and then respraying with a mat laquer afterwards. I use Humbrol Enamel thinner for enamel wash, and English Distilled Turpentine for an oil wash, which do you think would be best?


Personally I use white spirit, the cheaper the better. I would emagine though that as you hand paint Humbrol you will have an abundence of Humbrol thinner? It is quite likely that you get a better (possibly marginal) effect with Humbrol thinner. For oil washes I again use white spirit. It is possible that more expenseive stuff will give you a better effect, but white spirit works for me. I'd say use what you've got. When you get close to running out and have to buy more, might be the time to get something else (cheaper) and experiment.

I've started mine, well I painted the prop tips. i had to paint the tips on my Corsair, Sea Fury and Mk V (that's it showing the harness) so I cleaned up the prop for the Mk I and got on with it. When I've finished this session on Armorama I will aim to clean up and paint the Int Green bits. I've been building my Corsair.
Roger, What time do you normally appear here on Armorama, I seem to miss you. when I get on I seem to have missed a load.
Mal
Favorisio
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Posted: Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 03:02 AM UTC
Progress report.... Cockpit is finished, I think..... I was reasonably happy with the console including the scrtatched dials, but will be better next time... Seatbelts were a bit of a disaster, I'm not very experienced with PE and all sorts went wrong... Hoever, I think when the plane is finished I will be happy enough with the effect, OK it may not be the most accurate representaion, but there's always next time....


So my next question...... Any tips or advice on joining the 2 fusilage halves? Please :-) Should I join the 2 halves and insert cockpit at the same time,? Not forgetting part A16 of course

Then... what should be next?

Mal, I'm on here all sorts of times, often many times during the day. Workdays it's often 8-8.30am, then 6 ish in the evening, then I pop in and out when I'm taking a break. Weekends varies a lot, but usually in and out several times. 9pm is a good time for me till about 10.30 - Christine is usually watching TV
Roger
TwistedFate
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Posted: Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 06:55 AM UTC
Looks good Roger.

I have joined the halves and have the wings and horiz. stabs on. (It looks like a Spit!!)

Here is how I did it.
1) I scraped the green off the interior where A16 would go and then sanded the edges of the fuselage halves.
2) Joined the 2 halves, starting at the back and working my way forward.
3) I had a very small gap at the front from a little over zealous and not quite perpindicular sanding also just in front of the cockpit the pieces seem to to turn down a bit before they meet leaving a little "v" shaped channel, so I puttied those areas. When dry I sanded all the seams and putty areas to smooth the seam lines.
4) Attached part A16.
5) Attached the cockpit interior. (See Note below)
6) Attached Wings and Stabs

Note: The back of the seat brace sat up high in the plane. I did a quick test fit with part C4 (see step 5 in instructions) and it wouldn't fit down so I had to sand the top of the seat back a little bit to get it to fit. Also the cockpit assembly is not pushed all the way up so the brace frame fits up against the fuselage walls. I had to do this to get C4 to fit properly.
Holdfast
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Posted: Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 07:17 AM UTC
:-) Roger,
Looking good, instrument panel particularly, it will look even better when it's in position. Don't worry about the seat belts, PE does take some getting used to, again when it's inside the fuselage it will look OK.
Now for joining the fuselage halves. First of all, test fit the fuselage halves. They will probably fit OK, mine do. Tape them together and test fit the interior, from underneath. Go carefully, don't force it, it should fit OK. If it doesn't for some reason you will need to find out why and sort it. Most likely reason will be that it's riding on it's location rib rather than in front or behind it. When it slides in nicely (where have I heard that before) take it out and dry run a couple of times more, just to highlight an problems there might be. Remove it then you can glue the fuselage halves together. You can leave the tape on thats holding them together, but there is a danger of getting cement under the tape and damaging the surface. Personally I would remove the tape, cement the halves together using liquid glue, letting capilary action do the work. Tape the fuselage back up as you go, (just a little something about tapeing, turn one end on it's self, it will make it so much easier to remove). When you add the cement, squeeze the halves together, this will/may create a little weld bead along the seam. When this is dry this is your filler. Even if there is no real need for filler this will help eliminate the join. Leave the fuselage over night, to dry. While this is curing you could put the wings together. It will be advantages to test fit the wings to the fuselage, before the interior is glued into place. This is so you can make adjustments before the glued in interior prevents it. The Tail planes are pretty well keyed so you could add these, after cleaning up, but I prefer to have the main wings on first. Just for the piece of mind that they are on right.
Won't be long now :-)
Mal
TwistedFate
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Posted: Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 07:51 AM UTC
Sorry Roger, I have a tendency to take for granted that everybody will test fit the interior and such, before actually cementing the halves to find any possible problems. The only thing I don't do that Mal said to is tape the halves while gluing. Because I glue slowly from one end to the other I use the slight tackiness of the first cementing to hold my pieces in place while I cement the rest and make adjustments. I also have 2 large clothespins that I shaved down on the inside of the clip that I use to hold the fuselage together after completing the cementing process. It exerts pressure on the seam to squeeze some cement out like Mal said and since it doesn't touch the seam I don't worry about accidently attaching tape to the model. (I've done it before, and it was a bear to clean up)
Holdfast
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Posted: Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 08:19 AM UTC
:-) Tim, I use clothes pegs on wings, I've found that they can distort fuselage halves and the like, unless they are "soft jawed"(engineering term, meaning jaws that conform to the shape). But of course each to their own.
Roger just take it easy. When you test fit the interior you could try the canopy part, C4 and trim A14, if required. I've just dry fitted A14, in the taped together fuselage and tried C4. Looked OK. The shoulders of A14 should come up to where C4 joins. :-)
Mal
TankCarl
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Posted: Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 12:30 PM UTC
Just catching up.

My real work area

pre paint

post paint


Holdfast
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Posted: Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 07:08 PM UTC
:-) TankCarl, looking good :-)

:-) Roger,
I've double checked the rear canopy, cockpit interior situation. On my kit, the rear canopy rides a little high, so I sanded the bottom edges, very slightly. The ridge inside represents a brace and should be painted int green. the front of the rear canopy is where the gap from this brace to the recessed part is (have a good look and you might be able to understand what the hell I'm talking about )The top of the rear framework fits into this recess. Suggestion, After gluing the fuselage halves together, attache the rear conopy,after painting the brace on the inside. When you test fit the interior, make sure the top of the frame engages into the recess. The shoulders on the frame should be level with where the canopy sits. If anything you might need a couple of swipes with emery paper on the top of the frame. :-)
Mal
Favorisio
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Posted: Monday, March 10, 2003 - 08:59 AM UTC
OK guys, I think I can follow your comments on the cockpit and canopy fitting, but.....

As you may be able to see, the canopy C4 is sitting very high at the front, it fits in with the top of A14 i.e. into the little recessin the canopy, but it is high. I could do as Tim did and samd the top of A14 till it fits, but I feel I may damage the top bit of the voltage regulator B8. I may have to sand, very slightly, the right hand shoulder of A14 as it sits slightly higher than the left side. But..... what about the gap? It is quite larger, maybe 1mm.

One suggestion I have is to glue the fusilage halves (they dry fit well), install A16 (after the halves are glued???), install the canopy, then fit cockpit....... BUT, will this have a knock on effect later if the cockpit is sitting slightly low at the back. I hope you get what I mean.
Roger
Holdfast
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Posted: Monday, March 10, 2003 - 09:22 AM UTC
Roger, I'm just checking this out now................................
1st edit
Yeah, the problem is the voltage rgulator. When I test fitted the frame it wasn't on.
Is your interior glued in? If not you could first of all try filing the base of the regulator to the same shape as it, the rectangular part that attaches to the frame, If it still fouls it you will need to file the regulator it self, trying to keep its shape.
2nd edit
MMMMM new theory, I think it's the simulated brace thats fouling the voltage regulator. It might be that that needs removing. Or the front part at least. Thats what it looks like i've done on my other Mk I. I think the easiest way would be to re-profile the regulator. It wont be seen with the canopy open.
3rd edit
No just realised the mistake, I think. looking at mine I think I might have the regulator on upside down. the other way up it looks as if it should clear the canopy, I'm going to cut mine off and try it the other way up and hopefully that will solve it.
Mal
4th edit Roger just been able to have a look at yours again and it does look to be upside down.
TwistedFate
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Posted: Monday, March 10, 2003 - 10:55 AM UTC
Mal, Roger: I looked my regulator is on right, I made sure before I glued it. For me it was the corners of A14 sat up too high. Rounding them off help to sit the canopy down alot.
Favorisio
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Posted: Monday, March 10, 2003 - 11:04 AM UTC
Mal, thanks for that, I think you may be right. Tim and I had a chat about it earlier in the chat room, and i decided to do a combination of sanding the top of A14 a bit (which I have done), glue the canopy first, then fit the seat a little bit lower if needed, and also squeezing the canopy a bit as it seems a bit wider than the fuselage (not much tough). I reckon with the canopy on and the paint retouched, no-one will notice.

No, the seat is not glued in yet, just dry fitted.

Roger
Holdfast
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Posted: Monday, March 10, 2003 - 07:47 PM UTC
I've put a new blade in my scalpel, I'm gonna cut the sucker off and turn it over. I dry fitted the frame back to front, tried the canopy and it fits perfectly, over the head rest. So the canopy should fit if the regulator is positioned right. Just shows how careful you need to be sometimes. Anyway, it's a good lesson, and thats what we are here for. It looks like Tankcarl's regulator is on the right way up, will be interesting to see if he as any probs with the fit. :-)
Mal (a little bit pissed off) but hey, it's a Spitfire :-)
stugiiif
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Posted: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 02:55 AM UTC
Well guys i'm going to fall behind and try and help out anne, the baby is kicking her when she paints so i might need to do that much for her!!! As far mine goes My 1/16th Tiger I and King Tiger came in today and I'll try and shuffle the spitfire in to the mix but it looks like at least the paint job will be put off for awhile. Stug
Holdfast
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Posted: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 08:32 AM UTC
:-) OK Steve no probs.
Well I attacked the regulater and.....................got it off cleanly, phew turned it over, test fitted and guess what..............................perrrrrrrrrrrrrfect :-)
I had intended to get the interior sprayed today, but I ended up waiting for a phone, all day, so I daren't get started in the spray booth. Managed to get the wings on my Corsair though. I've also half written a feature
Mal
EDIT-----Feature is on the Bf 110. Suppose I could do one on the Corsair, but David Aungst has just done one. More the merrier :-)
TwistedFate
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Posted: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 09:27 AM UTC
Good job, Mal. Can't wait to see your feature and your Corsair.

I've been a lazy little git. I have the it all masked off and ready to prime and just can't seem to get it done. Maybe I should get off of here and go do it now.