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Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
'Hobarts Funnies' & experimental armour
TreadHead
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Posted: Monday, March 04, 2002 - 10:35 PM UTC
Just an open question here all (this topic is influenced by another thread, so you are all to blame also )
I'm sure (I think) this topic has been addressed on previous threads, a piece here and/or a piece there. But, first, is there a company or garage kit manufacturer out there that makes 1/35th scale conversions or complete kits of any or all of the 'Hobert's Funnies'?
Second, (and this mainly applies to the german armour since they were pretty experimental, especially towards the end of the war) how about 'experimental' iron, is there a company out there that makes any of those?
And lastly, (I'm out of breath) How many of you have built what might be considered an experimental or hybrid piece of of armour? Now this could also include the likes of bridgelayers, engineering vehicles, mine rollers, etc, etc.

Thx in advance.

Tread.
GunTruck
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Posted: Monday, March 04, 2002 - 10:49 PM UTC
Tread - Resicast produces two M4 Sherman DD kits in 1:35 scale. One has a partial screen in place, and the other just the hull extensions for erecting the screen. I haven't seen one with the entire screen, but probably the second kit is to allow the modeler to create their own.

Gunnie
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Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 12:14 AM UTC
I've built a Tamiya M113 using the Verlinden experimental MICV conversion set. This basically added 3 or 4 weapons ports to the sides of a 113. I also have built several 1/48 scale MBT70s. Nothing real far out there though.
GunTruck
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Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 02:00 AM UTC
Along this line, I'd sure like to get into a Wolverine (M1 Abrams that is) Heavy Assault Bridge. Can't find good information or drawings on it to make the attempt...

Gunnie
210cav
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Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 02:04 AM UTC
Gunnie--I work with the various M-1 derivatives. What do you want to know and I will attempt to gather the information.
DJ
210cav
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Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 02:06 AM UTC
Gunnie/Rob--like I neeed something else to buy and build these days. However, where can I find details on the DD model you described.
DJ
GunTruck
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Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 02:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gunnie--I work with the various M-1 derivatives. What do you want to know and I will attempt to gather the information.
DJ



Thanks DJ. I'm trying to find a set of drawings or pictures of the modifications to the M1 to accomodate the HAB & the HAB itself.

Gunnie
GunTruck
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Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 02:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gunnie/Rob--like I neeed something else to buy and build these days. However, where can I find details on the DD model you described.
DJ



DJ - this is the only place I know that has a review of the DD Sherman. It's on the Dutch site TWENOT, and an English translation was available on Track-Link - but not accessible because Track-Link is down. Perhaps one of our gallant European members here can help in translation!

http://www.twenot.nl/duplex.htm

Resicast models are available from R&J Enterprises or Brookhurst Hobbies.

Gunnie

210cav
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Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 02:51 AM UTC
Gunnie--many thanks. I am going to track it down with R&J. Why do I allow you guys to talk me into buying more models!!!!!
DJ
210cav
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Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 02:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Gunnie--I work with the various M-1 derivatives. What do you want to know and I will attempt to gather the information.
DJ



Thanks DJ. I'm trying to find a set of drawings or pictures of the modifications to the M1 to accomodate the HAB & the HAB itself.

Gunnie



Gunnie--I have some promotional data from GDLS on her. The HAB is one of those projects that comes alive, is almost produced then killed to save .55 cents.
I'll get back to you.
DJ
210cav
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Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 03:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Gunnie/Rob--like I neeed something else to buy and build these days. However, where can I find details on the DD model you described.
DJ



DJ - this is the only place I know that has a review of the DD Sherman. It's on the Dutch site TWENOT, and an English translation was available on Track-Link - but not accessible because Track-Link is down. Perhaps one of our gallant European members here can help in translation!

http://www.twenot.nl/duplex.htm

Resicast models are available from R&J Enterprises or Brookhurst Hobbies.

Gunnie---if anyone comes into my office, I am toast. Regardless, I checked with R&J Enterprises. They carry Resicast. The are two type DDs. One has the DD skirt removed. Cost $98. The other has the skirt lowered. It is out of production.
DJ

Gunnie


TreadHead
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Posted: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 07:06 AM UTC
Sorry all, been offline the past day and a half. Just read your posts, many thx.

O.K., first thx Gunnie for the Resicast info, but it looks like DJ found some more info out. I'll have to check it.
Second, also thanks to Rob. An M113 MICV huh? Interesting, bet it was a lot of work cutting out all the hatches.
Seems like (from the response) that the experimental pieces are not done as often as I would think.
Question; Is that because of lack of interest, (people just want to do the standard fare). Or,
because of the ' Difficulty Factor'?

Hobart's Funnies consisted of (here's where my memory fails me) several examples of unique armour applications. The 'fascine' tank, the DD of course, the one with the kind of built-in bangalore torpedo 'nose', etc, etc. Surprised Accurate Armour hasn't produced any
(since the british were the real supporters of the 'Funnies' and AA is british )

I guess the oddball pieces have always interested me, kind of like how a tank team generally personalizes their tank.

tread.
puyallup7400
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Posted: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 03:39 PM UTC
Gunnie,

Here a couple of sites for the Wolverine. I was just looking up info on Grizzly's last week and got side tracked on the HAB.

http://www.wood.army.mil/TSM/wolverine.htm

http://www.tacom.army.mil/dsa/pms/cms/hab/index.htm

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/wolverine.htm

Fort Leonard Wood and TACOM have pictures, drawings, video clips and some POC's for the project.

Just for grins I found PS Magazine online at http://www.logsa.army.mil/psmag/pshome.html , I remember a thread about PS Magazine.

Hope this helps some,

Dave
210cav
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Posted: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 07:46 PM UTC
Dave--some interesting material. The tricky thing about building the Wolverine HAB is that the system is similiar to if not the same as the German bridge system. Specifically, we formerly used the scissor type bridges where as the Wolverine is a single bridging unit. I never took a close look at one. I wonder how they have the drivers compartment arranged. On the old M-48/60 chassis AVLBs there was also an odd ball arrangement for the driver and his assistant. They had two hatches side by side blocked by the launcher arm. This limited the drivers peripheral vision. If the assistant was not watching it was quite easy, for example, for the driver to place the right track off the allowable road space. This resulted in innumerable crushed German fences and VWs. But, that's another story.
DJ
Sabot
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Posted: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 11:03 PM UTC

Quoted Text

An M113 MICV huh? Interesting, bet it was a lot of work cutting out all the hatches.

Actually it was a rather simple conversion. I only "got into" Verlinden when I was in Germany and they were everywhere. This conversion was one of my first and the M113A1 was plentiful back then. Basically, all that is done to the kit is to remove the inner fuel cell, add the external fuel cells and then cut both sides of the hull to allow the hull sides with firing ports to be added. I also believe I added the front floatation devices to accomodate the extra weight. Pretty simple.
210cav
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 02:28 AM UTC
As I recall, they produced a sizeable number of MICVs. Probably somewhere in the 20-30 vehicle range. We tested them at Fort Benning in the 70's. No distinct advantage to the existing M-113s. I believe they were then sold to the Dutch. Saw several when I was in Europe in 1980. Why we went crazy over side port firing weapons is a direct result of saying "but the Russians hordes have this superior BMP..." Yeah. Right.
DJ
DJ
puyallup7400
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2002 - 06:55 AM UTC
DJ

I can understand how the scissors bridge was, I just don't quite understand how the single unit is articulated. Have seen AVLB's in action and been able quiz the operators. Never got to see how the single unit works. Alway puzzled me when I saw the German bridges.

Remember: Always purchase from R&J Eneterprises. Keep those dollars rolling into Washington, we can't rely on Boeing anymore. Cheap plug.

Dave
Sabot
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2002 - 11:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

As I recall, they produced a sizeable number of MICVs. Probably somewhere in the 20-30 vehicle range. We tested them at Fort Benning in the 70's. No distinct advantage to the existing M-113s. I believe they were then sold to the Dutch. Saw several when I was in Europe in 1980. Why we went crazy over side port firing weapons is a direct result of saying "but the Russians hordes have this superior BMP..."

Amazingly, weren't firing port weapons removal the first modification done to M2s?
TreadHead
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2002 - 10:36 PM UTC
Has anyone done a 'fascine' type tank, or know of any diorama done that included one?

Tread.
210cav
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2002 - 10:49 PM UTC
Tread--I did one for Emhar Mark VII Male with a VLS after market product. It replicates what must have been a post WW I fascine. I have not seen the VLS product in a while.
DJ
210cav
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2002 - 10:57 PM UTC
Rob---because we let ourselves believe the Russian hordes had superior equipment in the form of the BMP, the Infantry School just had to have a similar firing capability. Now, in my humble opinion, no one gave much thought to effect of such firing when placing vehicles on the FCL and having them fire into each other prior to letting the grunts out the back. It was a dumb set up. We further compounded the problem by never figuring out what weapon to put in the firing ports. So, we messed with .45 cal SMGs, 5.56 mm sorta M-16s, and something else. Total mind boggling mess. Some brave soul finally said "enough." And, behold it all went away.
DJ

[/quote]Amazingly, weren't firing port weapons removal the first modification done to M2s?[/quote]