Hi;
I know I'm reviving and old post here, but any intel is good intel, right?....
I've not been able to find Blacken-It, but I've found something called Brass Black made by Ozark Miniatures for model railroaders. Has anyone tried this stuff for Friul tracks?
It says it contains selenious acid which I uderstand is also in Blacken-It. I'm thinking that it will accomplish the same thing, but I wasn't sure.
Anybody?
thanks;
Bob
Hosted by Darren Baker
Blacken -it ?
NebLWeffah
Joined: October 13, 2004
KitMaker: 1,683 posts
Armorama: 1,248 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 04:08 AM UTC
jabo6
Joined: September 24, 2005
KitMaker: 276 posts
Armorama: 152 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 05:00 AM UTC
Hi Bob Yes, the stuff you bought should work just like blacken-it .i have a simular product from a model r.r. store the works just like blacken-it. its the selenous acid that does the trick. john. 
NebLWeffah
Joined: October 13, 2004
KitMaker: 1,683 posts
Armorama: 1,248 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 05:59 AM UTC
Cheers John, thanks very much...
Bob
Bob
Herkledeeks
Joined: May 22, 2005
KitMaker: 89 posts
Armorama: 62 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 07:07 AM UTC
You can find Blacken - It and all of A-West's products at Micromark.com. They also have a weathering solution called Weather-It that chemically ages wood.
Aaron C.
Aaron C.
sgtsauer
#065
Joined: March 30, 2002
KitMaker: 2,605 posts
Armorama: 1,814 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 08:02 AM UTC
You can get Blacken-It at Spruebrothers and OnTarget Hobbies also.
NebLWeffah
Joined: October 13, 2004
KitMaker: 1,683 posts
Armorama: 1,248 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 07:26 PM UTC
Okay - I found some Blacken-It and now I have both Blacken-It and Brass Black. I'll compare the two over the next few days on some spare Friul track links and let you all know the results.
thanks;
Bob
thanks;
Bob
ChrisD
Joined: September 14, 2005
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 08:34 PM UTC
Blacken-It can be purchased from Micro-Mark. I've also seen it at hobby stores. My experience is it does a very good job of "rusting" Fruilmodel tracks. However, the Tiger tracks I blackened did not blacken, or rust the links deep into each track link. And I soaked the tracks twice. I soak the tracks in a plastic party cup, that way you only use half a bottle of blacken it. If you order it, order at least two to three bottles. Its only four ounces per bottle. Second, when you remove the tracks, run them under cold water, then let them dry on a paper towel. Be careful when you pick them up a few hours later, because some of the "rust" will rub off on your hand. So I decided to seal the tracks. When I used a flat sealer - 1/4 Tamiya flat base, 1/4 Tamiya clear base and 1/2 Tamiya acrylic thinner, the edges of the Tiger treads turned a very light blue. It must have been a chemical reaction or something. Perhaps you could seal with Testors flat out of a spray can or Krylon flat. Its always good to experiment with a few spare links before you blacken the entire tread.
pzcreations
Joined: May 24, 2006
KitMaker: 2,106 posts
Armorama: 1,116 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 09:11 PM UTC
Ive used Blacken It many times. Heres a few tips that may help you in your experiments...
To help in reducing the amount of brownish residue on the tracks, thoroughly wash them with dish soap and a toothbrush (not your wifes) before soaking. . you can also do this after soaking to rid all of the brown residue. The longer you soak them, the darker they get. Though, I accidently left some spare tracks in it overnite. When I tred to remove them, they were basically a wet chalky substance. I could crush them with two fingers.
For the Tiger tracks, Ive also had this problem, with the recessed areas staying silver, no matter how long I soaked them or how many times I dipped them. I recently tried a new method to rememdy this. I first painted the tracks with black primer. Then later scrubbed them with some paint remover. which left the recessed areas black, or grimey black. Then washed,dried, and then soaked them in the solution. It worked perfect! The paint was uneffected and the metal areas weathered as usual.
This same company also makes whats called Patina -It. The bottle looks exactly like BlackenIt, same letter style, everything. Its easliy confusing to pick this up instead. I did this and didnt relaize it until after I used the whole bottle trying to figure out why it wasnt working.
There is also another formula out the, which I prefer over blacken-it. Its made by Micro Engineers and is called Rail Weathering Solution. Found in train hobby stores. Just ask em if they dont have it, they can order it. It comes in the same amount as Blacken -It, but costs maybe $1-2 more. I prefer it because its stronger. With it, I can weather 2 sets of Tiger Tracks. With Blacken-It I can only do one set. Hope this helps.
To help in reducing the amount of brownish residue on the tracks, thoroughly wash them with dish soap and a toothbrush (not your wifes) before soaking. . you can also do this after soaking to rid all of the brown residue. The longer you soak them, the darker they get. Though, I accidently left some spare tracks in it overnite. When I tred to remove them, they were basically a wet chalky substance. I could crush them with two fingers.
For the Tiger tracks, Ive also had this problem, with the recessed areas staying silver, no matter how long I soaked them or how many times I dipped them. I recently tried a new method to rememdy this. I first painted the tracks with black primer. Then later scrubbed them with some paint remover. which left the recessed areas black, or grimey black. Then washed,dried, and then soaked them in the solution. It worked perfect! The paint was uneffected and the metal areas weathered as usual.
This same company also makes whats called Patina -It. The bottle looks exactly like BlackenIt, same letter style, everything. Its easliy confusing to pick this up instead. I did this and didnt relaize it until after I used the whole bottle trying to figure out why it wasnt working.
There is also another formula out the, which I prefer over blacken-it. Its made by Micro Engineers and is called Rail Weathering Solution. Found in train hobby stores. Just ask em if they dont have it, they can order it. It comes in the same amount as Blacken -It, but costs maybe $1-2 more. I prefer it because its stronger. With it, I can weather 2 sets of Tiger Tracks. With Blacken-It I can only do one set. Hope this helps.
PvtMutt
Joined: July 01, 2006
KitMaker: 614 posts
Armorama: 601 posts
Posted: Friday, August 25, 2006 - 01:32 AM UTC
I've read a couple of post here and there that says,
Selsun Blue the dandruff shampoo will work as well.
It has 1% selenium sulfide and suppose to get the
job done also. I've got a bottle but haven't tried it
yet.
May take a little longer to work with such a low percentage
of selenium but the stuff is alot safer to work with if
you're worried about that.
Selsun Blue the dandruff shampoo will work as well.
It has 1% selenium sulfide and suppose to get the
job done also. I've got a bottle but haven't tried it
yet.
May take a little longer to work with such a low percentage
of selenium but the stuff is alot safer to work with if
you're worried about that.
Tapper
Joined: July 26, 2003
KitMaker: 664 posts
Armorama: 484 posts
Posted: Friday, August 25, 2006 - 02:32 AM UTC
Ingredients of Blacken-It are: Denatured alcohol, selenous acid & dilute copper chloride/copper carbonate.
WARNING!!!
Selenous acid is a poison!SO BE CAREFUL AND ALWAYS WEAR GLOVES AND A MASK!!
PvtMutt, Please let us know if that Selsun Blue trick works.
WARNING!!!
Selenous acid is a poison!SO BE CAREFUL AND ALWAYS WEAR GLOVES AND A MASK!!
PvtMutt, Please let us know if that Selsun Blue trick works.
AikinutNY
Joined: October 21, 2003
KitMaker: 683 posts
Armorama: 630 posts
Posted: Friday, August 25, 2006 - 06:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I used Printed Circuit Board etching liquid on my Fuils they turned an aged grey, like old mag wheels that have not been polished in ages, motocycles cases etc. It did not turn them rusty brown, so I'll try some "Black-it".Quoted TextVodnik, now that we know what this thing is made of, are you willing to try it out? :-)
Sure I would. But I still haven't got a clue where to get selenic/selenous acid :-(
Pawel
Use rubber gloves, eye protection and watch what is around to be spilled on. NO good clothes on when you use them or the misses will be mad at you and me! Watch using on copper, it will disappear!
kevinb120
Joined: May 09, 2006
KitMaker: 1,349 posts
Armorama: 1,267 posts
Posted: Friday, August 25, 2006 - 07:19 AM UTC
there are dozens of these weathering solutions. Most are associated with model railroading and can be found in force(as in every solution made) on www.walthers.com along with chains(about 250 styles) and all kinds of cool stuff. They have tens of thousands of products, including everything you could ever want for dios. Just about any product type you search for yields several hundred products. You would be amazed at what they carry as they supply virtually every model train store yet still have a retail site.
PvtMutt
Joined: July 01, 2006
KitMaker: 614 posts
Armorama: 601 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 08:15 PM UTC
Well so much for the Selsun Blue shampoo,it was a dud.
Let the track soak for 48 hours and it just did take the
shine off.
And yes I did de-grease very well before starting.
One thing, my hair really looks great. :-)
Let the track soak for 48 hours and it just did take the
shine off.
And yes I did de-grease very well before starting.
One thing, my hair really looks great. :-)
Switzersland
Joined: January 29, 2008
KitMaker: 196 posts
Armorama: 86 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 19, 2011 - 09:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Okay - I found some Blacken-It and now I have both Blacken-It and Brass Black. I'll compare the two over the next few days on some spare Friul track links and let you all know the results.
thanks;
Bob
How did the comparison turn out Cmdr?
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Monday, June 20, 2011 - 05:43 AM UTC
A much cheaper way to weather wood is to buy a bottle of black leather dye (not polish) and dilute it with alcohol. As very little dye is needed for a lot of alcohol, the bottle of dye will last a very long time. The alcohol evaporates quickly and does not warp the wood as much as water does, and you can vary the dilution ratio for different weathering effects. As for Blacken-it on Friuls, make sure the tracks are completely immersed in the solution and really shake it up well or place on a vibrating surface to dislodge air bubbles which prevent uniform covering. I didn't particlarly like the effect that Blacken-it has on brass MG barrels, but it did discolor and roughen up the brass surface sufficiently for a brushing of Mig Gunmetal which did look great.
JGriffon
Joined: December 01, 2010
KitMaker: 50 posts
Armorama: 46 posts
Posted: Monday, June 20, 2011 - 10:32 AM UTC
Hi Gents,
I have been following the blog on Blacken It and the concept has been around a long time and there are many different formulas. The results of the process depend on the type of chemicals and the type of metal alloy. The basic formula is10 g of Copper Sulphate + 10 g of Iron Sulphate in 100 ml (grams) of distilled water or alcohal. Copper Sulphate is sold as a root killer for water sewage pipes. Iron Sulphate is sold as the Bonide brand and is used for adjusting soil pH in your garden. Both can be purchased at the hardware store. Distilled water can be found in gallon jugs in your supermarket. A two pound container of Drain Care “Root Kill", a four pound bag of Bonide Iron Sulfate, and a jug of distilled H2O cost be less than $25. There is enough chemical there to last most modelers a lifetime so share it with your buddies.
I have been following the blog on Blacken It and the concept has been around a long time and there are many different formulas. The results of the process depend on the type of chemicals and the type of metal alloy. The basic formula is10 g of Copper Sulphate + 10 g of Iron Sulphate in 100 ml (grams) of distilled water or alcohal. Copper Sulphate is sold as a root killer for water sewage pipes. Iron Sulphate is sold as the Bonide brand and is used for adjusting soil pH in your garden. Both can be purchased at the hardware store. Distilled water can be found in gallon jugs in your supermarket. A two pound container of Drain Care “Root Kill", a four pound bag of Bonide Iron Sulfate, and a jug of distilled H2O cost be less than $25. There is enough chemical there to last most modelers a lifetime so share it with your buddies.
ruqui1
Joined: July 09, 2008
KitMaker: 45 posts
Armorama: 43 posts
Posted: Friday, November 18, 2011 - 03:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Gents,
I have been following the blog on Blacken It and the concept has been around a long time and there are many different formulas. The results of the process depend on the type of chemicals and the type of metal alloy. The basic formula is10 g of Copper Sulphate + 10 g of Iron Sulphate in 100 ml (grams) of distilled water or alcohal. Copper Sulphate is sold as a root killer for water sewage pipes. Iron Sulphate is sold as the Bonide brand and is used for adjusting soil pH in your garden. Both can be purchased at the hardware store. Distilled water can be found in gallon jugs in your supermarket. A two pound container of Drain Care “Root Kill", a four pound bag of Bonide Iron Sulfate, and a jug of distilled H2O cost be less than $25. There is enough chemical there to last most modelers a lifetime so share it with your buddies.
Copper Sulphate + Iron Sulphate would bring the same results of Blacken-it? I mean, will the metal turn black?
JGriffon
Joined: December 01, 2010
KitMaker: 50 posts
Armorama: 46 posts
Posted: Friday, November 18, 2011 - 05:50 AM UTC
That is what the chemist say, you can Google on line " Patina Formula's " and you will find many different formula's producing many different effects on most metals including black, brown, blue, red, orange, rust, and silver. I must point out that it is critical that the formulas are followed to the letter for them to work.
"Blacken It" is a marketed brand of one of these patina formulas and has a limited self-life as do most of these formulas. The solution will weaken over time causing the process to slow until after about one year it simply does not work at all. All of these chemicals can be purchased through chemical companies found online or as I mentioned in the original post some can be found at your hardware store.
"Blacken It" is a marketed brand of one of these patina formulas and has a limited self-life as do most of these formulas. The solution will weaken over time causing the process to slow until after about one year it simply does not work at all. All of these chemicals can be purchased through chemical companies found online or as I mentioned in the original post some can be found at your hardware store.
didiumus
Joined: March 18, 2003
KitMaker: 564 posts
Armorama: 312 posts
Posted: Friday, November 18, 2011 - 06:17 AM UTC
Great thread guys. Tony, there is no way shampoo would work as this product is an acid - an oxidizer. Shampoo wont "etch" into the surface of the metal and react.
Pawel, you should be able to find this product or something similar from a model railroad supplier in Europe.
One tip to help all of you - before you dip your Friuls, soak the tracks in vinegar for 24 hours. This will remove oils and impurities and make the etch more uniform. You may also want to scrub with some kind of a degreaser prior to soaking in vinegar, like soap and water, etc...
Lastly, Michael is right - this is just the first step. additional weathering is needed. Another thing I like about Blacken it, once the tracks are weathered, a quick skiff with a sanding stick replicates worn tracks better than paint.
HTH
Scott Gentry
Pawel, you should be able to find this product or something similar from a model railroad supplier in Europe.
One tip to help all of you - before you dip your Friuls, soak the tracks in vinegar for 24 hours. This will remove oils and impurities and make the etch more uniform. You may also want to scrub with some kind of a degreaser prior to soaking in vinegar, like soap and water, etc...
Lastly, Michael is right - this is just the first step. additional weathering is needed. Another thing I like about Blacken it, once the tracks are weathered, a quick skiff with a sanding stick replicates worn tracks better than paint.
HTH
Scott Gentry
ruqui1
Joined: July 09, 2008
KitMaker: 45 posts
Armorama: 43 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2012 - 11:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Gents,
I have been following the blog on Blacken It and the concept has been around a long time and there are many different formulas. The results of the process depend on the type of chemicals and the type of metal alloy. The basic formula is10 g of Copper Sulphate + 10 g of Iron Sulphate in 100 ml (grams) of distilled water or alcohal. Copper Sulphate is sold as a root killer for water sewage pipes. Iron Sulphate is sold as the Bonide brand and is used for adjusting soil pH in your garden. Both can be purchased at the hardware store. Distilled water can be found in gallon jugs in your supermarket. A two pound container of Drain Care “Root Kill", a four pound bag of Bonide Iron Sulfate, and a jug of distilled H2O cost be less than $25. There is enough chemical there to last most modelers a lifetime so share it with your buddies.
Well, I've followed this recipe with some photoetched parts but unfortunately didn't work for me
I've cleaned all pieces with acetone, use the right proportions but the pieces didn't blacken.Anyone know any other recipe to test?
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2012 - 04:47 AM UTC
If the PE has been laquered to prevent oxidation it might also provide a barrier to rusting solutions. I've found that Blacken-it can be unpredictable and the more often use use the solution, the weaker it gets. Also air bubbles get trapped in track link reccesses and prevent uniform saturation with Blacken-it. I would suggest placing everything into a small sealed container and giving it a good shaking periodically to dislodge the air bubbles. A sonic washer, if you have one, would work perfectly.
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