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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
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Jordanian Centurions
brunocollin
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Gironde, France
Joined: September 13, 2011
KitMaker: 95 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2020 - 07:31 AM UTC
Hi all,
Jordan get nearly all the Cent's main variants, from Mk1 till Mk7.
No Mk7 existing in 1/35 kit, I'm looking for pics of Mk3 or better Mk5, during the 6 Days War or the Black September fights.
I don't believe they were still in use for YKW but who knows ?
Thanks in advance for your help.

By the way, if you have pics of Egyptian Cent's, I'm interested too (Mk3, I suppose).
Frenchy
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Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,690 posts
Armorama: 12,478 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2020 - 08:12 AM UTC
"British-built Jordanian Centurion tanks arrive in the Golan Heights to support the Syrians during the Yom Kippur War, October 21, 1973"



I'll let you ID the pictured version

H.P.
zapper
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Skåne, Sweden
Joined: October 18, 2005
KitMaker: 744 posts
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Posted: Monday, July 27, 2020 - 08:15 AM UTC
Just after the Six Days War:


Full size

Black September:


Full size



Full size

Cheers,
/E
zapper
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Skåne, Sweden
Joined: October 18, 2005
KitMaker: 744 posts
Armorama: 733 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2020 - 08:24 AM UTC
Egypt, parade 1956:


Full size



Full size

Cheers,
/E
brunocollin
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Gironde, France
Joined: September 13, 2011
KitMaker: 95 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2020 - 09:01 AM UTC
Wow ! Thank you very much both of you.
Only the first pic of Erik shows Mk3 and 5, all the others are Mk7.
The Egyptian are Mk5.
Now, I have to choose which one to build
If you have others gems like those, gentlemen...
ReluctantRenegade
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Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,403 posts
Armorama: 2,295 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2020 - 07:51 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I don't believe they were still in use for YKW but who knows ?



King Hussein sent, very reluctantly, the 40th Armored Brigade (equipped with Centurion Mk. 7s AFAIK) to support the Syrians on the Golan Heights. He informed Golda Meir that in case of an all out war between Israel and the Arabs, Jordanian involvement would be symbolic just to keep his position in the Arab world and promised his armed forces would react 'slowly and cautiously'. He also asked Meir not to attack Jordan. As a testimony of their agreement, the Jordanians lost only 23 dead and 77 wounded in the war and Israel never attacked Jordan.

The 40th Armored Brigade lost 20 tanks in two days of fighting and took no further part in the battle. IDF Sho'ts fighting Jordanian Centurions sounds plausible.
Frenchy
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Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,690 posts
Armorama: 12,478 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2020 - 08:05 PM UTC
You must have this one already :



H.P.
brunocollin
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Gironde, France
Joined: September 13, 2011
KitMaker: 95 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - 06:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I don't believe they were still in use for YKW but who knows ?



King Hussein sent, very reluctantly, the 40th Armored Brigade (equipped with Centurion Mk. 7s AFAIK) to support the Syrians on the Golan Heights. He informed Golda Meir that in case of an all out war between Israel and the Arabs, Jordanian involvement would be symbolic just to keep his position in the Arab world and promised his armed forces would react 'slowly and cautiously'. He also asked Meir not to attack Jordan. As a testimony of their agreement, the Jordanians lost only 23 dead and 77 wounded in the war and Israel never attacked Jordan.

The 40th Armored Brigade lost 20 tanks in two days of fighting and took no further part in the battle. IDF Sho'ts fighting Jordanian Centurions sounds plausible.


Israël, thanks for the historical background.
Don't you know if Jordan Mk5 fought during Black September ?
The few pics I know are of Mk7.
I believe that 1967 losses were replaced by Mk7...
brunocollin
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Gironde, France
Joined: September 13, 2011
KitMaker: 95 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - 06:24 AM UTC
Thanks Henry Pierre !
I have it but in a book, not on my PC.
ReluctantRenegade
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Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,403 posts
Armorama: 2,295 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - 06:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Don't you know if Jordan Mk5 fought during Black September ?



I don't think so. The 40th Armored Brigade transitioned from M48s to Centurions in early 1970. AFAIK, all of these were Mk.7s. The very same unit fought Syrian T-55s later the year during the Black September events.
brunocollin
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Gironde, France
Joined: September 13, 2011
KitMaker: 95 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - 07:45 AM UTC
That was the idea : Cent's against T-55...
But making a Mk7 is a hell of a job !
No problem for the hull but the rear deck is a pain and the turret is quite (totally ?) different from a Mk5, with its own type of cupola...
Too much for me !
Crossing fingers for a "coming soon" release as other brands than AFV Club are tackling with Cent's.
frank01
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 195 posts
Armorama: 175 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - 10:35 AM UTC
Give e Bay a try. Has other options available.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AFV-Club-1-35-Centurion-conversion-Mk-7/114325002447?hash=item1a9e4d18cf:g:e0IAAOSwYTtcSKZD
brunocollin
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Gironde, France
Joined: September 13, 2011
KitMaker: 95 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - 11:44 PM UTC
Thanks for the link !
Great for the rear deck.
But I see no change for the turret (not the same heigth, not the same cupola).
And a little bit pricey.
I'll wait a little longer...
frank01
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 195 posts
Armorama: 175 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 30, 2020 - 10:26 AM UTC
The turret can be built up not a problem, are you referring to the position of the loaders hatch or the commanders double hatch which is mk8, the kit is cheeper then a lot of other 3d printed items that have less detail and size compared to most items I have used.
brunocollin
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Gironde, France
Joined: September 13, 2011
KitMaker: 95 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 30, 2020 - 11:42 PM UTC
The cupola is a new N°6 Mk1 on Mk7 Cent's and Mk8 get another new one (N°4 Mk1). All 3 totally different.
The kit is lacking the gunner periscope which should be back to the front slope of the turret "ā la Mk3".
The turret roof needs to be lower, just a tad but lower.
Regarding the price, I do agree it's in the range of printed 3D kits but spending more than the price of the complete plastic kit...err... no way for me, above all when you don't have all the new parts needed.
frank01
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 195 posts
Armorama: 175 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 08:34 AM UTC
which book have you read for the different cupola for on the mk7,
as the one on the mk8 was originally being designed for the mk7 but was to late to mount on production vehicles,
I think, the number you have is for the GUN control on the mk7, it is the No 1 MK 6,(6 bolt holes on forward slope) the forward gunners sight is mounted on all the newer turrets starting late mk3s so mixed with mk5s as change of besa to browning's around this time and 3 x turret manufactures having casting them,
the pictures above are mainly mk3 and 5s the one with rounds in front and all standing round turret mk 7s
brunocollin
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Gironde, France
Joined: September 13, 2011
KitMaker: 95 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 09:18 AM UTC
Mainly Simon Dunstan's book.
Page 43 "new cupola" and page 30 with pics.
But I agree I'm wrong with the periscope.
If the cupola is the same, that will change a lot of things about the kit... but not the price !
frank01
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 195 posts
Armorama: 175 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 10:41 AM UTC
I take it its the cent verses t55 one, as he has 4 on the centurion.
brunocollin
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Gironde, France
Joined: September 13, 2011
KitMaker: 95 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 11:25 PM UTC
It's from the Modern Combat Vehicles serie.
What are the other books, as I'm always looking for more about Cent's ?
I already have the Osprey New Vanguard and even the older Vanguard...
frank01
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 195 posts
Armorama: 175 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 - 03:36 AM UTC
you have one of the books I'm missing.

wings and wheels, G025 centurion and G036 centurion part 2,
the centurion tank, by Bill Munro,
centurion main battle tank, owners workshop manual (Haynes Manual)by Simon Dunstan,
both the vanguard books
tankcraft 14 centurion, Robert Jackson
tankograd with cents in