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Яusso-Soviэt Forum: Cold War Soviet Armor
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
Modelling 115mm T-64
duttons
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Posted: Sunday, April 19, 2020 - 12:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I emailed Sergej of SP Designs and he is interested in doing a T-64 m67 conversion, but it will not be now. He did state that the conversion would require a new turret, a new front glacis, a new barrel and mantlet, a new sprocket, and new idler. If based on the Trumpeter T-64 Mod 72.



That Would be fabulous, I love his work and have quite a lot of it. He produced so much great stuff before Trumpeter were interested and I have found it to be well done.
Jacques
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Posted: Thursday, April 09, 2020 - 04:51 PM UTC
Some more shots of the T-64R rebuild of the T-64. This series of photos really shows off the shape of the turret which is different than the T-64A turret.

T-64R
Jacques
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Posted: Thursday, April 09, 2020 - 04:45 PM UTC
There is a good reference photo in high quality on the wikipedia page:

Photo in upper right corner of page
Jacques
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Posted: Thursday, April 09, 2020 - 04:40 PM UTC
I emailed Sergej of SP Designs and he is interested in doing a T-64 m67 conversion, but it will not be now. He did state that the conversion would require a new turret, a new front glacis, a new barrel and mantlet, a new sprocket, and new idler. If based on the Trumpeter T-64 Mod 72.
Jacques
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Posted: Thursday, April 09, 2020 - 04:38 PM UTC
One thing I have not been able to clear up, but as has been posted, is which photos of the Obiekt 432 are shown? What version is filmed in the video? There were several pre-production runs built to get the tooling ready for mass production of the T-64. The book "Kharkov Morozov Machine-building Design Bureau KhMDB" Veretennikov,1997 ISBN:966-95223-0-7 states "The first serial T-64 left the main assembly line of the Malyshev Plant in October, 1963" and not much else was discussed, with most attention going to the previous Obiekt 430 and to the follow on Obiekt 434 (T-64A). The photo used as reference in this book is:



and the BP's they have in the book:



ayovtshev
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Posted: Wednesday, April 01, 2020 - 02:20 AM UTC
Scott,

Isn't it "Object 432" you're after?


If so, pm me your mail and I'll send you some refferences,

duttons
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Posted: Wednesday, April 01, 2020 - 12:31 AM UTC
Thanks Gerald
BootsDMS
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 06:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Brian,
Not Sucking eggs at all, always useful to talk through what we see with others. My mate here always picks up different things than I do, and that leads to more questions and some answers.

That video is sensational, especially the slow mo turret turn, it shows what I think is the stereoscopic range finder to good effect.

From about 1.31 there is a small segment that shows what looks like a cast in applique bludge on the glasis in front of the driver, you get a nice reflection as it comes out of the water.
From 2.55 there is some nice stuff to, not frommodelling point of view but techicaly, it looks like the rangefinder and drivers periscope have blowers on them to remove snow etc. Amazing, no wonder it was expensive.

You can see why I want to build one, such a landmark vehicle, and with 600 of the early variant produced I'm stunned an AM or trumpeter hasn't obliged.

I am a little economical with details in my modelling, so going with the 80/20 rule so may take some liberties, but I do enjoy getting a unique vehicle in the collection even if not 100% accurate.

Thanks for your input and contribution.
There are 2 other great books on the subject, in Russian, and despite learning for a few years I can only get documentaries.
I have the less detailed one in both hard and copy but would love to get my hands on hardcopy of the second. It's shown in the book section on the website Andrea pointed me to, but not to be had unfortunately

Glad I've peaked your interest. Wish I could peak Sergei at Sp Designs, a great project for that very talented man.

Cheers



Scott,

Apologies for the delay in this response, but that's the downside of my wife now working from home as Coronavirus impacts; I used to be able to access the home computer whenever I wanted but no more!

Your 80/20 rule gladdens my heart - that's more or less how I approach my modelling; the book Gerald mentions is one of the two I have on the beast - but I didn't dig into it until I saw Gerald's post - I'd forgotten that the early version is very clearly depicted and it should be fairly straightforward to model the rangefinder ports I reckon. Thereafter it should just be a matter of streamlining everything else down.

The T-64 was indeed a landmark vehicle, which seems to me to be overlooked a fair bit. It was the game-changer of the Cold War, what with its revolutionary (back then) 3 man crew, special armour, and still the largest calibre tank gun in the world - lean and mean certainly and fast. It rightfully spooked NATO; if you think back to its arrival date in the late 60s most of NATO's tank fleet were armed with the 90mm (M48) or the 105mm (Cents etc); the Brits had Chieftain of course but in the scheme of things there weren't really enough to go around, and it was also discovered in due course that the T-64's armour would defeat practically all NATO's hand held anti tank weapons. There's a good description of the latter discovery in Steve Gibson's book on BRIXMIS (one of the Allied military missions operating in East Germany) "The Last Mission" if you're interested.

Another mention of unlocking the T-64's secrets is also made in another BRIXMIS book by Tony Geraghty, who describes a BRIXMIS team breaking into a hangar and accessing a T-64 complete with camera of course.

Anyway, I've woffled on too much; all inspirational I hope, and I'm now looking at bumping my venerable Skif model T-64A up the build list.

Brian
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Monday, March 30, 2020 - 08:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

What mechanism do we have to make the original t64 with 115mm gun. Is the turret identical to the 64A? The video footage around shows what I believe is early 64 with no external fuel drums on rear, with the snorkel mounted on rear engine deck. The hull seems to be missing the splash guards etc.

I have been looking at the instructions for the Trumpeter T-64 1972. It looks like a T-62A, and can be modelled with AAMG or not. Is it the correct hull and turret, leaving off turret bins and moving snorkel to rear deck and removing self emplacing blade? Is the gun on it a 115 or 125mm, I don't know the recognition features between them excepting bore diameter.

Is there a combination of Skif, Trumpeter and SP Designs to achieve this early version readily.

Thanks


Get a copy of the Kagero Top Shots photo book on the T-64/T-64A. It features color walkaround photos of the T-64R (base model T-64 rebuilt to T-64A standards, but retaining the 115mm gun) and the T-64A. These preserved vehicles have the original glacis armor without the applique added in later rebuilds.
Here's one on Amazon, but you can probably find it cheaper if you search the net.
https://www.amazon.com/T-64-T64a-TopShots-Albert-Osi%C5%84ski/dp/8360445028
duttons
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Posted: Monday, March 30, 2020 - 11:27 AM UTC
Thanks Brian,
Not Sucking eggs at all, always useful to talk through what we see with others. My mate here always picks up different things than I do, and that leads to more questions and some answers.

That video is sensational, especially the slow mo turret turn, it shows what I think is the stereoscopic range finder to good effect.

From about 1.31 there is a small segment that shows what looks like a cast in applique bludge on the glasis in front of the driver, you get a nice reflection as it comes out of the water.
From 2.55 there is some nice stuff to, not frommodelling point of view but techicaly, it looks like the rangefinder and drivers periscope have blowers on them to remove snow etc. Amazing, no wonder it was expensive.

You can see why I want to build one, such a landmark vehicle, and with 600 of the early variant produced I'm stunned an AM or trumpeter hasn't obliged.

I am a little economical with details in my modelling, so going with the 80/20 rule so may take some liberties, but I do enjoy getting a unique vehicle in the collection even if not 100% accurate.

Thanks for your input and contribution.
There are 2 other great books on the subject, in Russian, and despite learning for a few years I can only get documentaries.
I have the less detailed one in both hard and copy but would love to get my hands on hardcopy of the second. It's shown in the book section on the website Andrea pointed me to, but not to be had unfortunately

Glad I've peaked your interest. Wish I could peak Sergei at Sp Designs, a great project for that very talented man.

Cheers
duttons
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Posted: Monday, March 30, 2020 - 11:05 AM UTC
Thanks Andreas,
It's interesting that the website has 3 schematics for object 432, 1963,64,67 all slightly different.

I think I'm looking at either 63or 64 as I will leave the Gill flaps for the 64A build.

grunt136mike
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Posted: Monday, March 30, 2020 - 10:39 AM UTC
Hi;

Sourcing T-64s is or can be an Enigma like most of Russian & Soviet Armor ! And remember the T-64s were Ukraine for the most part; So trying to ident a Mk; can be A problem do to Factory rebuilds. I have four T-64s in my collection and IMHO the kits Barrel is fine ! One Skiff and Three Trumpeter, two of them with metal barrels. My Favorite is the Bulat !

CHEERS; MIKE.
AOS
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Posted: Monday, March 30, 2020 - 06:29 AM UTC
Maybe you can find some usable info's here (although it is in German):
T-64.de
BootsDMS
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Posted: Monday, March 30, 2020 - 06:22 AM UTC
Scott,

To be honest I haven't researched the early versions as much as I should have; I was content to wrestle with the ancient Skif T-64Bs really just because I had them in my stash, and I am never minded to replace like for like just because a better kit comes out (clearly I have a perverse nature!). I have the Skif T-64A also and will attempt to do that justice although am more than aware that for the expenditure incurred in adding components I could have purchased the Trumpeter version in the first place!

Anyway, as for the 115mm armed version: I only have 2 x reference pictures and they are from the Osprey book on the vehicle. The text and photos by the way are excellent, the illustrations less so, however, that's besides the point. I note from the 2 x photos of the ostensibly 115mm armed version (2 pictures of the same tank) that it appears as though it was equipped with a stereoscopic rangefinder as there are 2 x identical housings - presumably for the lenses etc - at an equidistant spacing on the turret. I also note that this arrangement is also evident in the early part of this film clip (which also shows the Schnorkel arrangement on the hull rear):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfKnVd51ODA

Dig in at around the 2 minute point as the footage prior to that is of an even earlier version I think. I also note that the tow rope arrangement on the glacis is different in that both tow ropes are present.

Sooooo, from a modelling perspective if I were undertaking this (which I now might as you've whetted my appetite!) I'd probably make the following mods (this is not exhaustive just really shooting from the hip a bit):

a. Remove all details from the glacis and reconfigure as necessary ie adding towropes and the apparent single "bar" in front of the Driver's position. I'd recommend the Karaya tow ropes if you can get them.

b. Pare the turret right down, sanding where necessary ie no MG, removal of any lumps/bumps that do not show up on the pictures/videos. Add the apertures for the presumed stereoscopic rangefinder from spare etch/plastic card.

c. Add tarp to the turret rear - always a Soviet necessity.

d. Obviously add 115mm gun to taste (how the hell did this work as the turret was designed to deal with an automatic loader not big fixed-round ammo?)

e. Fix Schnorkel to rear hull.

You might wish to invest in an etch set for the finer details not least the grills/louvres at the rear and a few other details. I think Eduard still produce something which covers these - I'm afraid I haven't checked.

I'm also painfully aware that I may be guilty of teaching you to suck eggs - so apologies for probably far too much supposition - but I do love the T-64!

'Hope this helps somewhere along the line.

Brian
duttons
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Posted: Monday, March 30, 2020 - 12:58 AM UTC
Thanks Mike, had funny idea that 62 was a different 115mm so hadn't thought about that
duttons
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Posted: Monday, March 30, 2020 - 12:55 AM UTC
Thanks Brian,
It was trying to discern the actual differences that has me most perplexed. I had been looking at the Trumpeter t64 1972 kit and thought about leaving off the raw, which is an option in the build, moving the snorkel to rear deck, removing self entrancing and engineering attachments removing bullet splash guards on hull and no boxes on turret.

Where I get confused is the turret, I can't discern if there was any changes from this variant from original T64. My research has me confused about the optical rangefinder going to laser range finder and whether the original had a stereoscopic optical one with the lenses in each side of the turret connected by that lump that runs perpendicular to the gun, a la the t7w Ural.
I'm also conflicted about hull in front of driver, my refs show what looks like a different hatch arrangement and a thicker armour section forming a v shape in front of that hatch, yet others have the splash guards and still seem to be straight 64s.

I'm stunned that this isn't covered by Miniart etc, as I think there were about 600 made and is an important part in the development of russian tanks.

Thanks again
Scott
BootsDMS
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Posted: Sunday, March 29, 2020 - 11:58 PM UTC
Scott,

Aber produce a 115mm gun which should suit:

Aber ABR35L234

I'm a great fan of the T-64 although have no inclination to produce such an early version; I'd be inclined to utilise the venerable Skif kit (not least as it's probably cheaper if things go wrong).

Without better references (I only have 2 x books despite it being one of my favourites) I should think that if you strip off the turret boxes, remove the strakes on the glacis, and somehow discern how the Schnorkel fits on the rear decks, you'd have a starter. Of course, the Aber barrel would need to be fixed in place with say, a Milliput mantlet cover, and you'd need some replacement tow ropes. The Trumpeter tracks would be a necessity but I don't think these are too punishingly priced.

The Skif turret might need a bit of re-contouring but I recall the plastic is quite soft so that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Good luck with it all.

Brian
grunt136mike
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Posted: Sunday, March 29, 2020 - 03:58 PM UTC
Hi;

There are A few AM company's who offer the 115mm Rapira or you could invest in A T-62 and source its Gun

CHEERS; MIKE.
duttons
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Posted: Sunday, March 29, 2020 - 09:00 AM UTC
What mechanism do we have to make the original t64 with 115mm gun. Is the turret identical to the 64A? The video footage around shows what I believe is early 64 with no external fuel drums on rear, with the snorkel mounted on rear engine deck. The hull seems to be missing the splash guards etc.

I have been looking at the instructions for the Trumpeter T-64 1972. It looks like a T-62A, and can be modelled with AAMG or not. Is it the correct hull and turret, leaving off turret bins and moving snorkel to rear deck and removing self emplacing blade? Is the gun on it a 115 or 125mm, I don't know the recognition features between them excepting bore diameter.

Is there a combination of Skif, Trumpeter and SP Designs to achieve this early version readily.

Thanks