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Armor/AFV: Softskins
Softskins group discussions.
Hosted by Darren Baker
HEMTT with V2 rocket
HermannB
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Bayern, Germany
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 - 03:47 AM UTC
Sounds strange? I watched Timeless show and in one scene, the Nazis transported a V2 on a HEMTT truck, accompanied by a sidecar motorcycle and a fake Kübelwagen. But the scene is to short to identify the type of the HEMTT. Isn`t there a site that cover vehicles used in movies? It is Season 1 Episode 4.
Headhunter506
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New York, United States
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 - 04:12 AM UTC
Here you go, Hans-Hermann:

Timeless, TV Series, 2016-2018
panamadan
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Minnesota, United States
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 - 04:26 AM UTC
This is why I don't watch TV anymore...
brekinapez
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Georgia, United States
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 - 04:41 AM UTC
I can understand there not being too many of the German big trucks around for movie/TV use, but the Kubelwagen isn't that hard to find, and failing that a Type 181 'Thing' would fill in better and there are definitely plenty of those still around.

Show was terrible, anyway.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 - 04:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

This is why I don't watch TV anymore...



I often wonder what succeeding generations will believe when they use TV programs like this to study our history. Was that really the way it was?
VR, Russ
RobinNilsson
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 - 04:49 AM UTC
I never knew that there was a three axle-version of the VW Kübelwagen ....
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 - 05:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I never knew that there was a three axle-version of the VW Kübelwagen ....


Yeah...that was the command version!
brekinapez
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 - 05:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

This is why I don't watch TV anymore...



I often wonder what succeeding generations will believe when they use TV programs like this to study our history. Was that really the way it was?
VR, Russ



If they are stupid enough to think they were historical records, then our future is bleak.
18Bravo
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 - 05:09 AM UTC
The use of the BRDM-2 in Man in the High Castle was perfect. It looked the part, as did the Volvo L3304.
panzerbob01
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 - 06:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

This is why I don't watch TV anymore...



I often wonder what succeeding generations will believe when they use TV programs like this to study our history. Was that really the way it was?
VR, Russ



If they are stupid enough to think they were historical records, then our future is bleak.



"Seeing it" is compelling. We are extremely "non-critical" (OK, often just plain gullible) visually-oriented animals, and we gladly accept as "real" and suspend rational disbelief at the drop of a hat when we see even a crappy photo-shop job of something we might wish was actually real. Photographic "evidence" has been increasingly suspect since perhaps 1860... Soon, nobody will see a real actor in a movie... The characters will all be created out of arranged and coded pixels - and probably few or likely nobody will be able to determine whether what he / she sees on the screen is real, and to what degree.

We right here in our historically-oriented hobby have already seen and argued over the "reality" presented by various contrived and photo-shopped pictures. I'll withhold any judgement about any apparent relative "stupidity" being shown by various posters on various threads over years, but I think it safe to say that the "stupidity" in believing faked photos is already here. We don't have to wait for any future, let alone a near future, to find folks already gladly accepting created images as being "historical records" or any sort of evidence regarding the past.

Cheers! Bob
Kevlar06
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 - 06:48 AM UTC
I made my comment because I have a degree in education and two advanced degrees in National Security (which are long outdated now, and therefore worthless) and am married to a career educator. But I’m constantly amazed by the number of technically educated people who have no idea or care about any sense of historical fact, timelines or cause and effect. I always tell my kids the old adage “the devil is in the details”. When claptrap like these supposed TV “historical” images are presented, they unavoidably will have some effect on those who choose not to dig deeper. As Bob said above, we are continuously bombarded by “fake news”, electronic gibberish and photoshop images, and I fear that’s what will most likely be remembered of our legacy. It’s up to the historians to keep us from falling into this trap—- But wait.... history is rarely taught anymore in high school... it’s been displaced by technology and “social communications” a mix of social studies and English (here in the US anyway). And then for only a few hours a week. Therefore, our children will likely get their “history” from Hollywood, like these images I fear.

P.S.—This is why it’s incredibly important for those that restore historical vehicles, Museums, and institutions of higher education to continue to champion the study of such things as historical artifacts— and modeler/artists to strive for as much authenticity as possible.
VR, Russ
SpaceXhydro
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 - 08:24 AM UTC
Maybe the Germans traveled to the future and copied american equipment.
brekinapez
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Georgia, United States
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 - 08:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I made my comment because I have a degree in education and two advanced degrees in National Security (which are long outdated now, and therefore worthless) and am married to a career educator. But I’m constantly amazed by the number of technically educated people who have no idea or care about any sense of historical fact, timelines or cause and effect. I always tell my kids the old adage “the devil is in the details”. When claptrap like these supposed TV “historical” images are presented, they unavoidably will have some effect on those who choose not to dig deeper. As Bob said above, we are continuously bombarded by “fake news”, electronic gibberish and photoshop images, and I fear that’s what will most likely be remembered of our legacy. It’s up to the historians to keep us from falling into this trap—- But wait.... history is rarely taught anymore in high school... it’s been displaced by technology and “social communications” a mix of social studies and English (here in the US anyway). And then for only a few hours a week. Therefore, our children will likely get their “history” from Hollywood, like these images I fear.

P.S.—This is why it’s incredibly important for those that restore historical vehicles, Museums, and institutions of higher education to continue to champion the study of such things as historical artifacts— and modeler/artists to strive for as much authenticity as possible.
VR, Russ



People like to make the argument that people will watch this stuff and then be driven to dig further. Sure, but that is a really small percent. Most people I know are content with accepting what they see on the screen and go no further. It is an extension of education today, where the details are left out and subjects (especially History/Social Studies) are treated in broad terms often without context. A lot of that comes down to teachers being given less time to teach since they have to focus on prepping kids for standardized testing, but many I know don't even bother trying to squeeze in more knowledge when possible. When I student taught for my Masters the teacher in the Environmental Science class I TA'ed in read straight from the PowerPoint on the screen (which he borrowed from another teacher) whereas when my turn came I constantly interjected relevant side material to expand on a topic. Problem was many of the kids ignored it since it wasn't going to be on the tests.
panzerbob01
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 - 12:37 PM UTC
My first post-doc career was teaching biol subjects to undergrads... I generally told folks that the key book and hand-out stuff was good test fodder, so go read it and ask questions if you want clarification... But EXPECT a solid component drawn from the non-book stuff I work over in class... Want that "A"? Better come prepped on what the prof hammered on. Some always swarmed to that bait - most sadly accepted C and B grades over actually trying to learn something new in a classroom.

Not all are equally interested in becoming genuinely informed about almost any topic you can name. This is why photo-shopping and fake news and loudly-repeated BS in place of real history works - most are willing to accept and embrace things which "sound right or good" according to their pre-set and pre-conceived (and sadly, previously-learned) ideas. People LOVE reinforcement of what they already believe. Finding out that you are wrong is rarely pleasant (although it can be mighty rewarding!). Even seemingly well-educated folks are caught up in this willful ignorance process. And trends in modern elementary and secondary ed are doing nothing to fix this growing problem. Of course, bear in mind that this problem didn't start up yesterday or 2 years ago. Many current teachers "learned" their poor command of history a long ways back, and are just promulgating their "knowledge". The end result of this is probably easily predictable. You needn't wait for the "future" to see how our lessening command of history and willingness to question and seek and grasp the truth is leading to increasingly solid and reasoned decision-making "at the highest levels"!
Bravo1102
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New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 - 09:22 PM UTC
The biazzare little six wheeled Kubel-thing is a conflation of a Kubelwagen and a Protze kfz. 69.

I've seen it elsewhere and it's really a custom car not a replica of anything. Be like putting in a Rommel's Rod Mercedes car half track.

But the HMMTT, still in NATO three color and a cross stuck on the door.

And you do know that social studies teachers are increasingly hired for their coaching abilities. So long as they keep one chapter ahead of the students to do their lesson plans no subject knowledge necessary. Just give the school winning team.
18Bravo
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 - 02:12 AM UTC
To add to Bob's comments, this just came up yesterday from an Army colleague of mine: (and I'm paraphrasing. His sounded better than this)

"People will learn about a subject just enough to prove themselves right, but not enough to prove themselves wrong."

Sound like anyone?
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 - 02:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

To add to Bob's comments, this just came up yesterday from an Army colleague of mine: (and I'm paraphrasing. His sounded better than this)

"People will learn about a subject just enough to prove themselves right, but not enough to prove themselves wrong."

Sound like anyone?



Oh, those ... thirteen a dozen last thing I heard ...
RobinNilsson
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 - 02:36 AM UTC
That TV-scene could become an interesting diorama though.
HEMTT: check
V2 rocket: check
Protze chassis: check
Kübel coachwork: scratch
Some civilian cars for the TV-crew: check (various pickups)
Actors and film crew: convert existing figures
ArtyG37B
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: August 13, 2009
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 - 03:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

That TV-scene could become an interesting diorama though.
HEMTT: check
V2 rocket: check
Protze chassis: check
Kübel coachwork: scratch
Some civilian cars for the TV-crew: check (various pickups)
Actors and film crew: convert existing figures



I believe there's also a '60s Geramn MAN 4x4. most of the vehicles came from the museum I work for. we tried to explain the historical inaccuracies, but sometimes directors are like "that looks cool I want it!"
HermannB
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Bayern, Germany
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 - 04:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

That TV-scene could become an interesting diorama though.
HEMTT: check
V2 rocket: check
Protze chassis: check
Kübel coachwork: scratch
Some civilian cars for the TV-crew: check (various pickups)
Actors and film crew: convert existing figures



Still the question: Which version of the HEMTT?
HermannB
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Bayern, Germany
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 - 04:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

That TV-scene could become an interesting diorama though.
HEMTT: check
V2 rocket: check
Protze chassis: check
Kübel coachwork: scratch
Some civilian cars for the TV-crew: check (various pickups)
Actors and film crew: convert existing figures



I believe there's also a '60s Geramn MAN 4x4. most of the vehicles came from the museum I work for. we tried to explain the historical inaccuracies, but sometimes directors are like "that looks cool I want it!"



Was the episode filmed in B.C.?
HermannB
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Bayern, Germany
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 - 04:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Protze chassis: check
Kübel coachwork: scratch


Its unlikely that they had a Krupp Protze. How about a John Deere Gator 6x4?

https://www.mascus.at/landmaschinen/gelaendefahrzeuge/john-deere-gator-6x4/ds7k9yex.html

I am no expert but the WSS uniform look a strange as the vehicles?
RobinNilsson
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 - 04:55 AM UTC
I think you nailed it with that John Deere Gator 6x4,
it will be difficult to find one in 1/35 though .... dang!
brekinapez
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Georgia, United States
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 - 12:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text


And you do know that social studies teachers are increasingly hired for their coaching abilities. So long as they keep one chapter ahead of the students to do their lesson plans no subject knowledge necessary. Just give the school winning team.



That is exactly how things work at my wife's job. My daughter is in the IB (International Baccalaureate) program and her Biology teacher was hired even though her degree was not in science and she was not certifi8ed to teach advanced classes.

But her son was an aspiring track/high jump star and they wanted him for the Varsity team. I, with a science degree AND a Master's in Education did not get the vacancy for Environmental Science--a class I was a TA in for two years and taught for one--because they wanted the receptionist's husband who was a football coach. This cronyism crap may look nice on the trophy wall but it screws over the kids who just want to learn.
ArtyG37B
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 - 01:14 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

That TV-scene could become an interesting diorama though.
HEMTT: check
V2 rocket: check
Protze chassis: check
Kübel coachwork: scratch
Some civilian cars for the TV-crew: check (various pickups)
Actors and film crew: convert existing figures



I believe there's also a '60s Geramn MAN 4x4. most of the vehicles came from the museum I work for. we tried to explain the historical inaccuracies, but sometimes directors are like "that looks cool I want it!"



Was the episode filmed in B.C.?



Yes. the whole series was here.