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Chipping on early DAK Panzer IVs?
kunjuro
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Philippines
Joined: October 27, 2013
KitMaker: 399 posts
Armorama: 374 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 04:31 PM UTC
Hi folks,

I still won't have a working compressor until october/november. As such, I am limited with what I can do with handbrushes (or spray paint for basecoating) when it comes to painting vehicles.

I'm buying a Panzer IV ausf D by Tamiya (and old kit I know, but cheap enough so I won't regret experimenting) and was looking to do an Afrika Korps vehicle. I can't do airbrush modulation, so I thought of relying on heavily chipping the paint with either dry-brushing or sponge chipping techniques.

Question is: how badly chipped were the earliest Panzer IVs? Would it be out of the norm to heavily chip the desert paint on the tank? I remember reading that the earliest vehicles like the SDKFZ 222s deployed didn't have their camo well applied and had them prone to chipping. I was kinda hoping doing something similar to a well-worn winter whitewash but with desert camo instead.Most of the Panzer IV Ds I've seen still had their desert camo paint intact.

Second Question: if I really can't chip that much, does anyone have tips on how to make Panzer Grey stand out without relying on an airbrush? I was thinking of applying a panzer grey coat with rattle can, then oil-dot rendering/filters to break up the monotony.

Thanks folks, really appreciate it.
d6mst0
#453
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Texas, United States
Joined: August 28, 2016
KitMaker: 1,418 posts
Armorama: 549 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 11:35 PM UTC
Nigel,

The DAK yellow paint really mostly faded away to wind and sun than chipping. Chipping would happen in areas that gotten banged around. To get the effect of the DAK paint showing the grey I first painted the whole tank grey, put down a clear coat and repainted the tank with MIG washable DAK yellow. Waited an hour than using a bush and water removed the yellow paint enough to show the grey to effect of how much wear I wanted it to represent.

Mark
phantom_phanatic309
#372
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United Kingdom
Joined: March 10, 2010
KitMaker: 2,280 posts
Armorama: 420 posts
Posted: Monday, September 09, 2019 - 12:07 AM UTC
Most of the early kit that the Afrika Korps took with them was still in dark panzer grey and overpainted on arrival. Often using Italian paint stocks, but sometimes a sand paste mixed with water or petrol. Could be an interesting finish to replicate as that would be more prone to wearing.
Can't remember the dates, but within a few months kit started to arrive from the factory in dessert cammouflage paint. This wouldn't wear down to grey as there was no grey underneath. The Tank Museum at Bovington recently did a video on YouTube about repainting their Tiger in correct DAK colours which was quite revealing about the high quality of the paint used.



pbennett
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United Kingdom
Joined: October 14, 2007
KitMaker: 381 posts
Armorama: 338 posts
Posted: Monday, September 09, 2019 - 01:19 AM UTC
I specialise in small-scale armour (mainly 1/72 and 1/76). How effective this will be on 1/35-scale vehicles I'm not sure, but I tend to use a reverse technique when replicating worn and chipped paintwork (particularly on DAK subjects). I also use enamels rather than acrylics. Essentially, this involves applying a suitable desert colour, and then carefully dry-brushing a dark grey over relevant areas to give the impression of the original paintwork exposed due to sand erosion. Once satisfied with the appearance, I then apply a series of washes, and finally chalk pastel powder to create an overall covering of dust. Rust can also be replicated using chalk pastels, either applied dry, or mixed with a small amount of water. Since my completed models are always incorporated in diorama or vignette settings, there is no risk of them being handled (and the chalk being rubbed off). Consequently, I avoid sealing them with varnish, as this tends to take away the all-important dry dusty appearance.
kunjuro
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Philippines
Joined: October 27, 2013
KitMaker: 399 posts
Armorama: 374 posts
Posted: Monday, September 09, 2019 - 01:32 AM UTC
Thanks folks. Your replies have been insightful.


Quoted Text

Most of the early kit that the Afrika Korps took with them was still in dark panzer grey and overpainted on arrival. Often using Italian paint stocks, but sometimes a sand paste mixed with water or petrol. Could be an interesting finish to replicate as that would be more prone to wearing.
Can't remember the dates, but within a few months kit started to arrive from the factory in dessert cammouflage paint. This wouldn't wear down to grey as there was no grey underneath. The Tank Museum at Bovington recently did a video on YouTube about repainting their Tiger in correct DAK colours which was quite revealing about the high quality of the paint used.



Yeah, I did a bit of research on DAK camo too but for the earliest Tiger Is deployed. I was also told about the two-tone camo and how it was factory applied meaning no grey would have necessarily been showing underneath. The earliest Panzer IV ausf Ds were deployed at the start of the conflict though, and these would have still had their panzer grey basecoats. I'm trying to find photos of these with the initial hastily applied desert-yellow-brownish camo in the hopes of seeing one with chips as well.



Quoted Text

Nigel,

The DAK yellow paint really mostly faded away to wind and sun than chipping. Chipping would happen in areas that gotten banged around. To get the effect of the DAK paint showing the grey I first painted the whole tank grey, put down a clear coat and repainted the tank with MIG washable DAK yellow. Waited an hour than using a bush and water removed the yellow paint enough to show the grey to effect of how much wear I wanted it to represent.

Mark



Hmm, I might try this if I can get my hands on mig paint. Vallejo doesn't like this as it tends to flake when you scrub it with water. Maybe Tamiya will be better. Thanks for sharing your technique!


Quoted Text

I specialise in small-scale armour (mainly 1/72 and 1/76). How effective this will be on 1/35-scale vehicles I'm not sure, but I tend to use a reverse technique when replicating worn and chipped paintwork (particularly on DAK subjects). I also use enamels rather than acrylics. Essentially, this involves applying a suitable desert colour, and then carefully dry-brushing a dark grey over relevant areas to give the impression of the original paintwork exposed due to sand erosion. Once satisfied with the appearance, I then apply a series of washes, and finally chalk pastel powder to create an overall covering of dust. Rust can also be replicated using chalk pastels, either applied dry, or mixed with a small amount of water. Since my completed models are always incorporated in diorama or vignette settings, there is no risk of them being handled (and the chalk being rubbed off). Consequently, I avoid sealing them with varnish, as this tends to take away the all-important dry dusty appearance.



Thanks! This is the technique I'm thinking of applying. I might practice on some plasticard first to see if I can control my drybrushing well enough.


pbennett
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United Kingdom
Joined: October 14, 2007
KitMaker: 381 posts
Armorama: 338 posts
Posted: Monday, September 09, 2019 - 09:20 AM UTC
Of course, as pointed out in the other replies, only the early arrivals in North Africa would have been painted with the Dunkelgrau colour. Presumably, later vehicles would have had a red primer beneath their factory-applied sand colour, so it is worth bearing that in mind when dealing with your particular subject. The secret of successful dry-brushing is absolute minimum of paint on the brush, just enough to stain the area or panel edge. I tend to use a flat brush, and apply with a stroking/flicking motion until I can see a trace of the colour appear. This is then be repeated until I am happy with the result. Of course, areas of corrosion can also be replicated using this technique. Dry-brushing is also an excellent way of picking out exposed steel and wood-grain effects (in both cases, applied over a dark grey base coat).
MrCompletely
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Saitama-ken, Japan / 日本
Joined: February 12, 2016
KitMaker: 120 posts
Armorama: 112 posts
Posted: Monday, September 09, 2019 - 05:13 PM UTC
You'll have to click through a few pages to get to North Africa (it generally follows a chronological order) but you'll probably find what you're after here.

http://histomil.com/viewtopic.php?f=338&t=3918