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Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
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Well, Why Hasn’t There Ever Been a Book?
Kevlar06
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2019 - 08:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Can you provide any details about Brown U's collection of military miniatures? i.e., on display and open to the public?

Thanks for your help.


Larry, here's the link to the Brown Military History Collection. They do a lot more than their collection of 6,000 figures (mostly 54mm) depicting the uniforms of soldiers up to1945. The Brown University military history collection has one of the world's largest depositories of information on military uniforms. They have a huge collection of books, artwork and materials. The figures are on public display. When I was attending the Naval War College in 1991, I had the opportunity to view part of the collection brought to the NWC Museum for the Art and Artists in Newport show. I was astounded to find another figure painter at the show, between us we displayed about ten 1/16th scale figures. Since you're in Massachusetts, I can also recommend the Bunker Hill museum, which has a nice 1/87th or 1/72 (I can't remember what scale it is) display of the entire battle of Bunker Hill (Breeds Hill) in Boston. It has hundreds of figures in the Diorama. Here's the link:

https://library.brown.edu/collections/askb/intro.php

VR, Russ
ctkwok
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2019 - 03:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I have had some long talks with Raymond Chung of Luckymodel, and based on what he has told me, the modeling business doesn't follow the logic that we modelers try to impose on it. Without violating any confidences Raymond gave me, let me just say that the Chinese factories that crank this stuff out are not modeling companies. And the companies that put this stuff out under their brand aren't always stand-alone companies like Tamiya who focus entirely on the modeling world.

So don't expect things to work according to how they should in a classic B-school case study. It's a great deal messier, and often more opaque than you think.


This is an interesting subject, is there any chance you can elaborate a bit what you're talking about? It's not clear if elaborating more in something that sound more coherent would violate confidentiality, with your own discretion. It is quite frustrating when you say it's not what you think and not give any directions.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2019 - 05:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I have had some long talks with Raymond Chung of Luckymodel, and based on what he has told me, the modeling business doesn't follow the logic that we modelers try to impose on it. Without violating any confidences Raymond gave me, let me just say that the Chinese factories that crank this stuff out are not modeling companies. And the companies that put this stuff out under their brand aren't always stand-alone companies like Tamiya who focus entirely on the modeling world.

So don't expect things to work according to how they should in a classic B-school case study. It's a great deal messier, and often more opaque than you think.


This is an interesting subject, is there any chance you can elaborate a bit what you're talking about? It's not clear if elaborating more in something that sound more coherent would violate confidentiality, with your own discretion. It is quite frustrating when you say it's not what you think and not give any directions.


Not to steal Cody's thunder, but It's really no secret many of the mainland Chinese manufacturers are subsidized by larger tool and die, electronics and toy manufacturing entities. It's also not a secret many mainstream Western model manufactures such as Italeri, Revell-Monogram, Revell GMBH, Airfix and others contract out their pressings to these companies or have in the past. If you need proof, just look at the small print on the side of the box. Some of these companies are totally dependent on the whims of the parent company for support, or dependent on external contracts. At the opposite side of the Spectrum are the Japanese, Taiwanese, and Korean companies (AFVClub/Hobby Fan, Tamiya-Hasegawa, Fujimi, Academy, etc.) in charge of their own destinies. The point is, between government control, supply and demand, and the economics of trade and commerce in China, these smaller Chinese companies can be rather transitory in their existence. Dragon maybe the exception, but even they have deep roots in the contract toy industry-- to which they are committed to expand at the expense of their scale model division (this was articulated to hobby Distributors back in 2013). Part of that is because they see a declining scale model market and a growing toy market. Bottom line-- As another frequent contributor is fond of saying here (not me)-- it's all about the money.
VR, Russ
ctkwok
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2019 - 05:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Not to steal Cody's thunder


I think you meant Bill Thanks for the details Russ. If indeed this is what Bill meant, shrugs. It was quite clear how the industry is set up, and Dragon has been making much more dough on their 1/6 figures. It baffles me that people are pissed at it for how it behaves, they care very little if their meagre profits on kits got eaten by the so-called newcomers. Even Tamiya could be surviving largely on their strength on RC and the highly profitable mini 4WD lines.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2019 - 01:57 AM UTC
Yep, I did mean Bill. I don’t know if that’s the inside “secret”, he’s implying, but I used to work for a local Hobby Shop that also was a large distributor, (60% of sales to other shops and stores or over the internet). Dragon was a direct supplier. I still know a few of the partners we dealt with in those days (I worked in the field from 2006-2014 until the owner passed). They all tell me Hobby manufacturing in China is a secondary or tertiary market for many of the small manufacturers, and business is tenuous because of this dependency on outside “gigs” so to speak. Unlike those larger established companies elsewhere in Asia. I forgot to mention Trumpeter, which like Dragon has established itself well as a leading Chinese manufacturer. Then, there’s a cultural and political-economic aspect to the business as well, and again, money speaks.
VR, Russ
bill_c
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Posted: Monday, September 09, 2019 - 05:36 AM UTC
I think Russ's input is pretty spot-on. Don't want to beat this to death.

Even Trumpeter is only a cog in a larger wheel. And they don't tend to pay much attention to what we want, or the complaints they get about their inaccurate offerings. Tamiya will send a crew to measure a relic in multiple museums; Trumpeter won't even take help offered to it by experts here in the West. That's a cultural refusal stemming from a sense of "we don't need outside help."
Kevlar06
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Posted: Monday, September 09, 2019 - 07:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I think Russ's input is pretty spot-on. Don't want to beat this to death.

Even Trumpeter is only a cog in a larger wheel. And they don't tend to pay much attention to what we want, or the complaints they get about their inaccurate offerings. Tamiya will send a crew to measure a relic in multiple museums; Trumpeter won't even take help offered to it by experts here in the West. That's a cultural refusal stemming from a sense of "we don't need outside help."


I would agree we've beaten this one to death. But I'll add a couple of more comments-- the ups and downs of Chinese commerce is one reason not to sit on the fence if you see something you like. In the past, with companies like Revell-Monogram, Italeri, Tamiya, Hasegawa, etc., you could count on a re-pop or a re-issue of a mold pressing--they owned those molds. But the business practices of many of these smaller Chinese companies don't fit what we've seen in the past. This explains big gaps in availability of products from some of these companies (including Trumpeter and Dragon). When I worked in the Hobby business, we used to tell our customers "on the fence"about a certain model, to "buy it now" if they really thought they'd want one in the future-- because we couldn't guarantee it'd be around forever--It wasn't just a sales pitch. And interestingly, we frequently shipped Dragon and Trumpeter kits to customers in mainland China who couldn't get certain kits made in their own country!
VR, Russ
MrCompletely
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Saitama-ken, Japan / 日本
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Posted: Monday, September 09, 2019 - 05:21 PM UTC
When I brought home some Gunze Sangyo products my girlfriend started laughing as here in Japan they're better known for making women's underwear and such. Our hobby is going the way of the dodo I think, and the big names have no doubt run simulations showing when it will cease to be worth their while. The current rash of new models is probably just a "dead cat bounce" as they try to screw as much money out of us as they can before we die.
Bravo1102
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Posted: Monday, September 09, 2019 - 08:21 PM UTC
Plastic model building isn't going anywhere so long as there is manga and anime. Two words: giant robots.

There will always be a fascination with building the mecha and tech from science fiction long after all our generation is all dust.

Our fascination with counting rivets on a panzer may die away, but someone will still want to build a mecha and then maybe that cool old plane the characters fly-- a Spitfire or Zero.

I remember hearing from an industry insider that the Chinese factory turning out models one day, the next would do Barbie stuff the next and consumer products the days after that. The plastic kits are a little sideline among all the other plastic ware created from kitchen gadgets to instrument pieces to toys and model kits.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Monday, September 09, 2019 - 08:54 PM UTC
" Bronco Mould & Plastic Co.,Ltd. Was established in November, 2004 and is located at Ningbo city whuch is well known as the home of mould. Bronco Mould devotes itself to the design and the development of the plastic moulds, including military models & emulation models. After several years of develop. Our research and develop capabilities are improving by a groud of professional technical team, which includes more than twenty product designers and CAM engineers.
The concept of people oriented, sustained technical innovation, and integrity and pragmatic purpose of serving build a competitive core of “Bronco Mould” in the competition of the industry. Our compny has a set of advanced equipment and instrument including the Three coordinates measuring machine, CNC, JDP, EDM, and so on. The professional technical team with high education enhance the competitiveness of the company.
Keeping development of indepengent brand, taking precision mould technology as key part for multiple industrial structure is the development strategy of company, and to become a world class model mould supplier and a world famous manufacture of military models are our goals. ‘The best from our heat’ is our slogan and it is also the beliefs of all staff.
The main business of our company is static military model, which is in high precision and is fine complicated moulded. After exported the static military scale model kits with our brand ‘BRONCO’ to Europe and America, we had won fully recognition in the industry and highly praised byi modellers. And some of our models are awarded in different international model competitions. Every mouth we will release new items and the number of product categories is increasing continuously. Now, we have over 20 distributors all over the world and we are looking for more.
On the other hand, we designs and process high quality moulds for our customers both in domestic and abroad. On international business, we build a long and steady relationship with Japan, ltaly, Russia, Ukraine and other countries, serving complete set of product and it’s mould’s design and process. On domestic business, we work with several large companies and provide our complete set of product and it’s mould.
We promise that we will dedicate ourselves to provide the highest quality of models and services our best to satisfy all the needs of our customers. Together with more friends at home and abroad, we will build a bright future for Bronco Mould & Plastic Co.,Ltd. "

No punchline
Their statements indicate more than one purpose with the company but modelling seems to be a core business, sort of ...
/ Robin
Removed by original poster on 09/10/19 - 10:02:46 (GMT).
Headhunter506
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Posted: Monday, September 09, 2019 - 10:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text

‘The best from our heat’


The connotation of the original is definitely lost in the translation.
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 04:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

‘The best from our heat’


The connotation of the original is definitely lost in the translation.


"First in their round of races" or "Best in class".

KL
bill_c
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Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 08:02 AM UTC
Predictions about the end of our hobby are over the top IMO. It has shifted from a child's hobby 50 years ago to one for adults. Today's kits for the most part are too complex for children or teens. So it requires dedication and money which only adults have both of.
Trisaw
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Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 12:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Predictions about the end of our hobby are over the top IMO. It has shifted from a child's hobby 50 years ago to one for adults. Today's kits for the most part are too complex for children or teens. So it requires dedication and money which only adults have both of.


Oh, I totally agree here. The hobby has seriously outpaced and advanced beyond what art, drug, toy, and craft stores offer as kits and paints. If you want the best hobby kits, tools, books, and supplies, they're often not sold outside of dedicated hobby stores---one has to buy online. Those who buy kits and paints at the above stores would be disappointed at the lower quality.

However, the hobby is thriving in Asia and Europe. Asia has a lot of trinket shops so one can buy a little plastic trinket and even paint that. That is why I wonder why 3D printing is the quality that it is when Asia has so many trinket, figure, and keychain shops for decades...all plastic. These trinket shops didn't expand in some nations...one can't get cool plastic for $2...and why is that? One can use that scale trinket, fill the keychain hole, and there is your model rocket launcher. It's like a Hallmark Christmas Ornament model, except way cheaper, and Asian stores are filled with these plastic trinkets so the hobby booms in Asia.
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