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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Sherman Project
Shermania
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Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 06:32 AM UTC
Hey, very cool project. I just wanted to make a quick comment about the tracks. T62 tracks were found almost exclusively on british vehicles. Some might know more but I’ve only ever seen them on like M4A4 tanks for some reason. Maybe factory procurement?

The tracks in your vintage pic are t54e1 tracks. The chevron is squared off and the bolt heads are not on the front face as they were welded not bolted. Sorry not nit picking just thought you might want to know but it’ll still look nice with t62 just pointing it out in case you’re worried about accuracy
barkingdigger
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Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 06:47 AM UTC
To add to Pedro's comment, the right-hand track in your pic is definitely T62 - you can see the bolts - but I bet there's an interesting story about where they got them from. The left-hand track is T54E1, not T74 - you can see rectangular holes at either end that are not in the T74s. If I was doing this I'd get two sets of Bronco tracks and their EECs, but your Masterclub T62s should be ok for the right-hand track - do they do a T54E1 set for the left?
tangodown
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Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 06:47 AM UTC
You can definitely see the bolts and the rounder shape of the T62 tracks.

27-1025
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Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 07:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Chris, the sharp looking vertical edge on the cheek (at the edge of the mantlet, mostly covered by the gun shield)
looks like add on applique which would be correct for an M4 with the early cast nose.


Agree with that. Ordered a TMD turret 35-1111 M4 Series 75mm Turret Shell: Redacted Cast-Welded Closed Pistol Port last night.
27-1025
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Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 07:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

To add to Pedro's comment, the right-hand track in your pic is definitely T62 - you can see the bolts - but I bet there's an interesting story about where they got them from. The left-hand track is T54E1, not T74 - you can see rectangular holes at either end that are not in the T74s. If I was doing this I'd get two sets of Bronco tracks and their EECs, but your Masterclub T62s should be ok for the right-hand track - do they do a T54E1 set for the left?


Don't know I'll have to check on that.
27-1025
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Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 07:54 AM UTC
As luck would have it they make both the T54 E1 and T54 E2. Just ordered the set of E1'
Shermania
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Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 08:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

To add to Pedro's comment, the right-hand track in your pic is definitely T62 - you can see the bolts - but I bet there's an interesting story about where they got them from. The left-hand track is T54E1, not T74 - you can see rectangular holes at either end that are not in the T74s. If I was doing this I'd get two sets of Bronco tracks and their EECs, but your Masterclub T62s should be ok for the right-hand track - do they do a T54E1 set for the left?


Holy smokes!

That is very interesting, it actually has t62 track on the bow gunners side!

It had to have been a field repair type deal where they just used whatever they had on hand to repair that track. I’m certain the drivers side track is original gear as american tanks didn’t use the T62 It certainly makes the build a LOT more interesting with two types of track adding to the already unique appearance of this tank.
Shermania
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Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 08:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Chris,

Great idea! The boxes on the left side seem to be two sizes.

Veterans I talked to that served alongside the British mentioned they liked to borrow from each other. Still, it is odd the right track is the type commonly used on the M4A4's, and a bit odd on a US tank. It shows just about anything goes with the Sherman's.


Randall I apologize for not reading the whole thread before chiming in about the tracks which you clearly pointed out here.
Shermania
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Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 08:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Chris, the sharp looking vertical edge on the cheek (at the edge of the mantlet, mostly covered by the gun shield)
looks like add on applique which would be correct for an M4 with the early cast nose.


Right on! You don’t miss anything It was probably one of those tanks that got remanufactured with add on armor kits, for some reason they didn’t replace the old gun barrel. This tank still has the very early gun barrel with the flared out tip like those used in north african battles like zidi bou zid
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 10:25 AM UTC
- American tanks used all of the track types as they were available. There was no proscription about the T62 or anything else. The T62 was rare in American usage because it was a Chrysler product and used on their M4A4s. The US did not use many M4A4s, so that accounts for their relative scarcity, not policy.

- Do not judge the track type by the shape of the chevron grouser. The steel chevron grouser tracks were made by rolling steel bar into a trapezoidal shape (British: trapezium). These bars were bent into the "flanged U" chevron shape and sheared to length, then welded to the track block. The shape of the bends varied.

KL
m4sherman
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Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 12:20 PM UTC

Quoted Text


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To add to Pedro's comment, the right-hand track in your pic is definitely T62 - you can see the bolts - but I bet there's an interesting story about where they got them from. The left-hand track is T54E1, not T74 - you can see rectangular holes at either end that are not in the T74s. If I was doing this I'd get two sets of Bronco tracks and their EECs, but your Masterclub T62s should be ok for the right-hand track - do they do a T54E1 set for the left?


Don't know I'll have to check on that.


Number MTL35125. I have a set for my next M4 project, along with the duckbills. Both sets are well done.
m4sherman
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Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 12:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Chris, the sharp looking vertical edge on the cheek (at the edge of the mantlet, mostly covered by the gun shield)
looks like add on applique which would be correct for an M4 with the early cast nose.


Right on! You don’t miss anything It was probably one of those tanks that got remanufactured with add on armor kits, for some reason they didn’t replace the old gun barrel. This tank still has the very early gun barrel with the flared out tip like those used in north african battles like zidi bou zid

Pedro, I suspect this is an early M4 that was rebuilt before Normandy. If I remember correctly they did not replace the gun tube during the rebuild if the mantlet and shield were upgraded.
m4sherman
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Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 12:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Chris, the sharp looking vertical edge on the cheek (at the edge of the mantlet, mostly covered by the gun shield)
looks like add on applique which would be correct for an M4 with the early cast nose.


Agree with that. Ordered a TMD turret 35-1111 M4 Series 75mm Turret Shell: Redacted Cast-Welded Closed Pistol Port last night.

Sounds good. If only the photographer had taken a right side view. This is a beautiful subject. I would like to now more about the 743rd, it's time to start googling.
27-1025
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Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 01:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text


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Chris, the sharp looking vertical edge on the cheek (at the edge of the mantlet, mostly covered by the gun shield)
looks like add on applique which would be correct for an M4 with the early cast nose.


Agree with that. Ordered a TMD turret 35-1111 M4 Series 75mm Turret Shell: Redacted Cast-Welded Closed Pistol Port last night.

Sounds good. If only the photographer had taken a right side view. This is a beautiful subject. I would like to now more about the 743rd, it's time to start googling.


Start with these: The View from the Turret: The 743d Tank Battalion During World War II; MOVE OUT! UNIT HISTORY OF THE 743RD TANK BATTALION and Move Out Verify - which is a public domain document and can be downloaded. It was a unit history written by unit members while still in Germany.
m4sherman
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Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 02:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text


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Chris, the sharp looking vertical edge on the cheek (at the edge of the mantlet, mostly covered by the gun shield)
looks like add on applique which would be correct for an M4 with the early cast nose.


Agree with that. Ordered a TMD turret 35-1111 M4 Series 75mm Turret Shell: Redacted Cast-Welded Closed Pistol Port last night.

Sounds good. If only the photographer had taken a right side view. This is a beautiful subject. I would like to now more about the 743rd, it's time to start googling.


Start with these: The View from the Turret: The 743d Tank Battalion During World War II; MOVE OUT! UNIT HISTORY OF THE 743RD TANK BATTALION and Move Out Verify - which is a public domain document and can be downloaded. It was a unit history written by unit members while still in Germany.

Great, thank you!
27-1025
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Posted: Sunday, August 25, 2019 - 01:52 PM UTC
While I'm waiting for the various tracks to arrive, got a jump start with the T62' and the 'duck bill' extenders





By way of comparison I decided to try and knock out a set of Bronco tracks. I found some hacks from Terry Ashley on PMMS which made the assembly a bit easier - still very tedious but they do actually work and are a bit cheaper than some of the alternatives.

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