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Tank Tracks when Shot
Stands24
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Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 - 03:32 AM UTC
Hey guys! I'm working on a 1/35 M4A3E8 at the moment and I was wanting to have it destroyed. I already know how to make penetration holes and I have the finishing shot made in the hull. However, I wanted the right side tracks to be shot and therefore broken apart.

Does anyone have pictures of tracks like this? Like the spot where the actual shell went through? I'm sure the links will be blasted apart but is there still a circular hole where the shell passes through? Or are the links hit by the initial impact completely shattered?

Any damage of a Sherman's drive sprocket would be useful too. I've searched Google and haven't found what I need...
sdk10159
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Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 - 03:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey guys! I'm working on a 1/35 M4A3E8 at the moment and I was wanting to have it destroyed. I already know how to make penetration holes and I have the finishing shot made in the hull. However, I wanted the right side tracks to be shot and therefore broken apart.

Does anyone have pictures of tracks like this? Like the spot where the actual shell went through? I'm sure the links will be blasted apart but is there still a circular hole where the shell passes through? Or are the links hit by the initial impact completely shattered?

Any damage of a Sherman's drive sprocket would be useful too. I've searched Google and haven't found what I need...



If you type Battle Damaged SHerman Tanks in the search window, you'll get hundreds of images showing what you want.
Stands24
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Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 - 05:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text



If you type Battle Damaged SHerman Tanks in the search window, you'll get hundreds of images showing what you want.



I've seen most of those already. I'm looking for one showing an unrepaired drive sprocket, after it was hit by a shell. Same with tracks. Any tank's tracks will do, I just need to know what the impacted tracks look like aside from being limp.
sdk10159
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Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 - 05:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text



If you type Battle Damaged SHerman Tanks in the search window, you'll get hundreds of images showing what you want.



I've seen most of those already. I'm looking for one showing an unrepaired drive sprocket, after it was hit by a shell. Same with tracks. Any tank's tracks will do, I just need to know what the impacted tracks look like aside from being limp.



Seriously? Here's one showing the tracks

http://i.imgur.com/AkKpsWR.jpg

Here's one showing a damaged sprocket.
http://i.imgur.com/AZvtMgf.jpg
Stands24
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Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 - 08:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Seriously? Here's one showing the tracks

http://i.imgur.com/AkKpsWR.jpg

Here's one showing a damaged sprocket.
http://i.imgur.com/AZvtMgf.jpg



That first one never came up in my results, searching what you told me. :/ It helps though.

As for the tracks, I’m trying to see specifically the links that the shot first came in contact with, unless they’re normally just blown to tiny bits.
babaoriley
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Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 - 08:58 AM UTC
There is a photo of a Jagdpanther knocked out near Hargarten with a penetration of one track at the top of the drive sprocket. Although it looks like one or two tracks links have partially fractured, the track has not come completely apart and is still in place. So it's hard to say what a hit by a large caliber shot will or will not do. IMO a modeler is allowed considerable artistic license so long as the result is at least plausible.

Based on a couple of photos I've seen it looks at if the entire outer ring of a Sherman drive wheel--the part with the teeth--could sometimes come off if sufficient force was applied to it (perhaps the bolts holding it in place could shear right off).

As for the track itself, presumably the pins were the part most likely to fail, so a track could be loose without showing much sign of damage. I'm contemplating a similar scenario with a T-54 with a track broken by a shot which penetrated the full, so you've got me wondering about this now, LOL.
sdk10159
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Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 - 03:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Seriously? Here's one showing the tracks

http://i.imgur.com/AkKpsWR.jpg

Here's one showing a damaged sprocket.
http://i.imgur.com/AZvtMgf.jpg



That first one never came up in my results, searching what you told me. :/ It helps though.

As for the tracks, I’m trying to see specifically the links that the shot first came in contact with, unless they’re normally just blown to tiny bits.



If it's an HVAP type of round and it impacts the track link, then I'd say you'd only see a hole or a gouge. If it's an HE round that impacts on the link, then I'd say the link would be destroyed, and possibly one or two adjacent links.
Stands24
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Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 - 05:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text

There is a photo of a Jagdpanther knocked out near Hargarten with a penetration of one track at the top of the drive sprocket. Although it looks like one or two tracks links have partially fractured, the track has not come completely apart and is still in place. So it's hard to say what a hit by a large caliber shot will or will not do. IMO a modeler is allowed considerable artistic license so long as the result is at least plausible.

Based on a couple of photos I've seen it looks at if the entire outer ring of a Sherman drive wheel--the part with the teeth--could sometimes come off if sufficient force was applied to it (perhaps the bolts holding it in place could shear right off).

As for the track itself, presumably the pins were the part most likely to fail, so a track could be loose without showing much sign of damage. I'm contemplating a similar scenario with a T-54 with a track broken by a shot which penetrated the full, so you've got me wondering about this now, LOL.



I will certainly look for that Jagdpanther photo!!

Thanks for the info onnthe drive sprocket and tracks. Ideally the shell in my scenario would have come in at an angle from the front. Maybe 11 o’clock? It will have caught the Sherman while it was driving so the tank will have continued forward (though swerving a bit to the right side given that the right drive sprocket & tracks are now damaged and unmoving) until the driver was able to react and stop the vehicle. This means that the tracks would have most likely separated in the place the shot hit, with a clear penetration mark in the tracks that took the hit.

If the tank was immobile when the shot hit then perhaps the links would stay together (although BARELY), unless something supporting them was broken off. In which case I imagine they’d separate at the point of impact.


Quoted Text

If it's an HVAP type of round and it impacts the track link, then I'd say you'd only see a hole or a gouge. If it's an HE round that impacts on the link, then I'd say the link would be destroyed, and possibly one or two adjacent links.



This will be an APCBC shell from a long 88. In my scenario, it hits the tracks on the front of the drive sprocket, then ricochets off to the side after damaging the sprocket too. I imagine the impact would be just barely enough to set off its fuse, so I’s say it detonated off to the side, away from the tank.

I formed the penetration hole in the hull using a heated 1:35 brass 88 shell. c: It was so hot I could feel it through the oven mitt I was holding it with... Lol!
CMOT
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#406
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Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 - 10:30 PM UTC
I don't know if this will help you much but the image below is of a guide horn blown off of a KV 1 by a hand grenade. I know this is not of the same order of destruction, but I believe it will give you an idea of how these moulding react to explosive charges.
babaoriley
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Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 - 10:30 PM UTC
Here is the photo I was referring to. There is another photo which I suspect was taken at the same time and place showing another knocked out Jagdpanther with an M36 TD close by, makes sense to me. " BORDER="0">
Stands24
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Posted: Monday, October 30, 2017 - 02:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Here is the photo I was referring to. There is another photo which I suspect was taken at the same time and place showing another knocked out Jagdpanther with an M36 TD close by, makes sense to me. " BORDER="0">



Doug, here is an Imgur album I created after finishing my track damage. It has HD photos and explanations of what I did in each image. Hopefully it helps you!

https://imgur.com/gallery/0hyW7
ronbo070
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Posted: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 - 12:44 PM UTC
I'm no expert but I do know the Sherman tracks were basically a rubber block with two tubes in them for the track pins to go through. In Steves first picture you can see the rubber blocks have been burned off leaving the two tubes showing. In the second picture of the "Easy Eight" the front drive sprocket is broken. These parts were hardened steel and therefore would wear well but were brittle which is why you see some tanks carrying spares. Since they were bolted on they were easy to change.

IMHO a Sherman track link would be destroyed and if burned would leave only the block tubes left on the guide horns.
Stands24
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Posted: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 - 07:14 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm no expert but I do know the Sherman tracks were basically a rubber block with two tubes in them for the track pins to go through. In Steves first picture you can see the rubber blocks have been burned off leaving the two tubes showing. In the second picture of the "Easy Eight" the front drive sprocket is broken. These parts were hardened steel and therefore would wear well but were brittle which is why you see some tanks carrying spares. Since they were bolted on they were easy to change.

IMHO a Sherman track link would be destroyed and if burned would leave only the block tubes left on the guide horns.



There were some tracks used on Shermans that were all-steel, but they weren't as common. The ones that came with this kit are the all steel T66 tracks made for the HVSS suspension, seen as the first one on this list.

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/tracks/hvss_tracks.html

That's a great site for most Sherman track info, by the way. I found info for my Cobra King there.