I don't even know if that's supposed to be good or bad But the response is funny. ... Complacently complaining.... Complacently... But on a side note, another kit to save my money for! But... If I do that I'll have no money left to get any other models... Quite a dilemma hath been imposed upon my wallet.

Is there really some magic circle of modellers which decides what manufacturers will produce? As opposed to the manufacturers deciding that themselves, of course. Even when model companies hire (I use the term advisedly, as I don't think any of them gets rich doing it) consultants to advise on projects, they don't always go along with what those consultants tell them, so it doesn't sound as though those individuals exercise any power. Just read some of Tom Cockle's posts on ML for evidence of that. I'm not sure why Kurt would hate the fact that you sent Meng some info and they acted on it, as it's somewhat unclear how he might be disadvantaged by that. Still, that's for him to say - I don't think it's appropriate for me to attribute thoughts to other individuals when they can express their own opinions. As noted above, we could do well to keep a sense of proportion here - this is not the most important thing in the world, particularly as everyone I know in this hobby is not exactly short of projects they could do if no more kits were ever released. And there is always scratchbuilding....

My observation of the recent market developments lead me to suggest that a kind of "separation" among kit manufactures has proceeded along with a shift forward in the history timeline. On the one hand you have the "Establishment" like TAMIYA being pressured years back when DRAGON, the first major Chinese company emerged, in production numbers. The input of new design & production technologies enabling AM companies to take a "slice of cake" and expanding their own supplemental market segment. With the increasing growth of Chinas economy a whole new range of companies like MENG, TAKOM, TRUMPETER etc. went into the market, but with a different approach than the companies already established. Moving away from the WW2 theme and responding to a newer/ younger generation of modelers being much more familia with recent/current military events and everything that comes with it. The supply of print/visual media on post WW2 events has also significantly increased supporting the kits now being offered. Is anybody really interested in DRAGON lastest Panzer IV, V and VI's ? Or has their M1A1, the M48s and M103s caused more attention ? TRUMPETER is constantly expanding their range of modern Russian AFVs, MENG always good for a surprise .... and who stared all the WW1 stuff ? Now Tiger-Models is dropping all the modern French goodies on us ... and some models are offered by more than just one manufacturer like the Leo1s, Chieftain's or the M60s etc. I do believe that some manufactures do listen to their customers to some extend ... see Chieftain, M60 .... but also exploit new market segments like the M9 or the D9, AMX-13 and all the SCUD stuff .... concluding that a all new M113 will be out shortly. But to achieve the high expectations in detail now in demand .... just look what you guys did to DRAGONs poor M103 .... making producers to rely on the input of "consultants" (if you want) to reduce their risks of failing on the one hand and keeping the upper hand over their competitors at the same time. Depending on which project the influence of the "consultants" might appear more stronger than they actually is. So don't kid yourselves ... all these companies are only in for the money and all the sophisticated input either by "consultants" or "enthusiast" is just one useful and cheap vehicle/tool to lead the whole project to success.. For myself I don't need to bust my brain on how a good kit came together, hell I don't even care who is to credit or not .... I'm just happy to have to choose from all the variety picking "the" kit which suits me the best .... and I can't see why any company should "owe" us something ... it's just business. Cheers Christopher

Some obvious questions: - Who should model companies listen to to insure that they don't lose money? The 322 people in the world who respond to their polls and surveys? The guys who post on websites or Facebook that "If someone came out with X, I'd buy ten of 'em!" but end up not buying any because "It's the wrong version", ""It has too many parts", "It doesn't have an interior", "It has band tracks", and "I hear Y is coming out with one - I'll wait for theirs." - Do you have any evidence that DML hasn't made money with their Tigers? Do you know for sure how Rye Field Models is doing with their Tigers? If these companies are making money off these kits, isn't that proof that they made the right decision and listened to the right folks? - If I'm not mistaken, neither of the other two kits you've mentioned has been released yet. What makes you so certain Meng and Takom won't lose their butt on them? Wishful thinking or financial data? What is this "circle"? Who belongs to it? If you respond to nothing else in this thread, please tell us more about this! I want to hear all the details: The power they wield, the companies that are under their sway, the kits that weren't made because The Circle gave them a thumbs down, everything! Please, spare no detail and don't be afraid to name names. This is bound to be good stuff and it's utterly fascinating. I presume you are directing this toward the people who said AFV Club "out-and-out screwed us" because they announced a kit and didn't release it. A question, if I may: Do The Powers That Be include the members of The Circle, or do you have to be in The Circle to become a Power? Hopefully the above meets your expectations. KL

Yes, sadly, that has been my experience. KL

Now that's funny! Who has five separate consecutive posts in this thread alone!? Jim

Now that's funny! Who has five separate consecutive posts in this thread alone!? Jim [/quote] Gotta get that post count up Jimbaloo. Only way to promotion in the Armorama Army Corps is by posting lots!

What do you mean, "lately"? I'm quite tolerant of others' opinions. I am intolerant of those who cannot express their opinions sensibly because it affects the whole process of giving and seeking opinions, reviews, impressions, and whatnot regarding models. Do a little experiment Dennis: Think of the best kit you ever bought and built. Now think back, weren't there some things that were not perfect, or not accurate? Of course, every kit has them. But they were small and compared to everything else in the kit they didn't diminish the good experience. Now suppose that someone posted about that kit and listed the very imperfections you recognized and said "Look at all these problems! How can a company make mistakes like these? This kit is junk, garbage, and filth and anyone who buys it is an idiot!" Would you say to yourself, "Oh well, he's just expressing his opinion, and his opinion is as valid as mine, so it wouldn't be right to challenge him." That's what happened here. "Out-and-out screwed" has a meaning as a phrase. To the gang reading this site I'm sure they are thinking of a deliberate, malicious act by someone to take your money or deprive you of something. Is that really what AFV Club did? More importantly, if I read your original post, I have to wonder, if he goes that far off the wall about literally nothing, how can I put any value in the other stuff he writes? It doesn't seem he can tell black from white from gray, or at least, express the fact that he can tell. KL [/quote] Kurt- These are your impressions, and I HAVE read the remarks of others' thoughts in this thread, which don't necessarily agree with yours. Think whatever you like about whether any of my other posts may give someone pause to my knowledge and/or experience. I've NEVER called YOU on the carpet for ANYTHING whatsoever. My opinions are MINE, and you have no right to publicly pillory me because you don't agree with some things that I say. If you disagree with things that I've written here, just say so. But DON'T put words in my mouth that I've never uttered. I did say that AFV CLUB "out-and-out screwed us", referring to the M8 HMC that they sent into limbo. Quite a few US/Allied fans that I've conversed with, not necessarily on this site, shared my opinion. And it's just an OPINION, that's all. DRAGON did much the same thing when they never released the M3 Lee/Grant that they advertised for over a year as "Coming Soon..." Do you just enjoy ripping other modellers to shreds publicly when they express opinions that don't coincide with yours, or is there some other deep-seated thing that drives you to spout your kind of derisive and malicious talk? As far as trying your little "experiment" goes, I have REPEATEDLY written on this site that, "No matter how good a kit may be, there is always something that will need 'correcting', 'replacement', or 'scratch-building' as far as one's personal standards require..." Your inference that I'm imbalanced and can't be trusted is as unwarranted as it is unfair. But that's just your OPINION, and my guess is that you'll rebut what I've just written here with more of your pointed vitriol. Don't expect another answer from me. In future, I will just ignore you...