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Kugelblitz
Nick61
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: August 29, 2005
KitMaker: 40 posts
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Posted: Monday, December 05, 2005 - 09:16 PM UTC
Greetings All

I'm just starting on a 1/48th scale conversion of Tamiya's panzer IV using the Schattom Modellbau conversion. I have come across the following picture that may be of interest as it appears to show a destroyed Kugelblitz

http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/19200

I am certain that the oft reproduced complete picture tank museum ref 2388/A1 is a British mock up based on the photo in the Vanguard of a Panzer IV minus the armoured cowl behind the drivers side vision slit. So is this the first real photo of a Kugelblitz??

As an aside a copy of the intelligence report obtained from the tank museum authored by Kratz gives a drawing number 21 St.53620 for the hull complete with drivers visor and 21 St.55631 for chassis modifications. Have copies ever turned up and does anybody know where they may be available from?

Best regards
Nick Perry
John-B
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Posted: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 12:32 AM UTC
For what its worth the single turret mounted on girders/brackets was in Shrivenham UK where it still is too my knowledge.

I don't see why the British would mock up a vehicle nor do I believe they ever did, when they had enough captured afv's being shipped back to Blighty for evaluation.

Regards, John-B
Shermaniac
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Posted: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 03:33 AM UTC
Hi Nick, found this and thought of you.

Review of Dragon 'Kugel'

http://www.internetmodeler.com/1999/june/armor/armor_kugelblitz.htm

However, more on that destroyed Kugel
Part 1: http://www.mihla.de/chr/050313VO.HTM
Part 2: http://www.mihla.de/chr/050313V2.HTM
2 views in Part 2 (in colour from this German site) which may help to tie down the actual location labelled as SPATENBERG (Spade Mountain?).

Extract:
Auf dem Verbandsplatz bei Hötzelsroda wurden deutsche Gefallene gesammelt und schließlich dort begraben. Heute liegen dort 358 deutsche Soldaten aus den Kämpfen Anfang April.
(In the Dressing Station by Hotzelroda were all the fallen German who were buried. There were 358 German Soldiers from the fighting in early April.) or words to that effect - courtesy of Collins Gem German Dictionary

I believe that this may be the forest area South-East of Berlin where the elements of the German Army were ordered to try to relieve Berlin from Hungary and Kugel's may have been sent/assigned as ground/air cover for troop movements. This forested area became a 'blood-bath' as the Russians finally caught up with them - can't remember the name but a program on either Channel 4 or Discovery/History covered this battle where they found the descendants of fallen soldiers.........
Nick61
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: August 29, 2005
KitMaker: 40 posts
Armorama: 30 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 08:43 PM UTC

Quoted Text

For what its worth the single turret mounted on girders/brackets was in Shrivenham UK where it still is too my knowledge.

I don't see why the British would mock up a vehicle nor do I believe they ever did, when they had enough captured afv's being shipped back to Blighty for evaluation.

For what its worth the single turret mounted on girders/brackets was in Shrivenham UK where it still is too my knowledge.



According to both the 'Nuts and Bolts' team and Jagdpanzer.de the turret is now at Rendsburg in the Rudel Kasern where the German Army AA school is based see

[url=http://www.jagdtiger.de/index2.htm?http://www.jagdtiger.de/GermanTanks/Kugelblitz-01.htm]l


Quoted Text

I don't see why the British would mock up a vehicle nor do I believe they ever did, when they had enough captured afv's being shipped back to Blighty for evaluation.



With respect what I meant was that the photo was mocked up. There were probabily only three Kugelblitz made, there is the complete turret and the destroyed vehicle and one other.

My contention is based on the position of the track, the missing armoured cowl on the LHS and the double layer of spare track on the glacis. Secondary to that the picture is at exactly the same angle as the Vanguard photo. As with the Su76i mentioned in Tankette several years ago I think the picture was created to illustrate an intelligence report and, as such, was intended to illustrate the vehicle so troops would recognise it when they encountered it.

Slightly off topic, with the JagdPanzer IV in America and the Kugleblitz turret apparently in Germany what else is missing from Schrivenham?

Right now I'm off to have a look at the site Alan has found.

Best Regards All

Nick Perry
John-B
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Posted: Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 12:32 AM UTC
Nick, you could ask John Rue about Shrivenham - he visited some years ago and may have listed what was in there 10-15-20 years ago. Gary would have his contact details if he is still a MAFVA member.

I'm still looking at the photograph but its too blurred. Can't see it being a hoax though??

John-B




Aitch
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Posted: Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 01:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

With respect what I meant was that the photo was mocked up...

Nick Perry



Hi Nick, Yup I think you are correct about the picture being mocked up. In photoshop at about 1000% the image shows some blocking up and doesn't look the same as the surrounding area.
Course you'd need to look at the real photo to decide, but for many years - around 1973 until about a year or so ago there was only that one heavily retouched picture. Then some pics and plans appeared mysteriously when there was some money available for them... You'll have to make up your own mind about their 'originality'