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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Sorry but another oils question
leader
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: May 06, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 12:26 PM UTC
Hi guys

I'm attempting to paint my figures faces the Bannerman way (found on the Missing-lynx website under figure articles). The early steps go fine, and my wash application is successful. But where I run into trouble is putting on the flesh coat.

Here is the article: http://www.missing-lynx.com/articles/figures/mbface/mbface.htm

Mr Bannerman suggests that the flesh mixture go on in a very thin layer, by using a jabbing motion to put on the flesh colour. But when I try this it just doesnt work out. My oil paint mixture for the flesh is thick and when applying it on the face, it results in a thick layer with brush strokes very visible.

Can someone help me but pointing me in the right direction. How viscous should the paint mixture be?

And with oil paints is there a different method of application....meaning not using brush strokes, but a different type of motion.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Leader
Folgore
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Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 12:40 PM UTC
I use Winsor & Newtons and I have never found it necessary to thin them. I do make sure there is not too thick of paint on the brush. Wipe the brush on the pallette a few times before applying the paint. That might help.
My method isn't the same as Bannerman's. I paint a flesh coloured undercoat with acrylic and then mix up two shadows and two highlights with oils to put on the model. I put on the lighter shadow and the darker highlight first and blend. Then the darker shadow and lighter highlight to extreme areas and blend again. For applying the paint, I do just stroke it on. When I blend, though, I kinda stipple it, so you don't have any brush strokes.
Hope that gives you some ideas at least.......

Nic
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Posted: Monday, September 16, 2002 - 09:01 AM UTC
Thanks Folgore

Any more people want to weigh in on this, please.
Folgore
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Posted: Monday, September 16, 2002 - 09:09 AM UTC
I guess I can add that the paint should not be runny like the stuff you get in a bottle. The texture of oils is so different, though, it's hard to explain just how viscous it should be. Like I said before, I just use 'em as they come out of the tube.
What kind of piants are you using anyway? Are they artist's quality?

Nic
sgtreef
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Posted: Monday, September 16, 2002 - 07:16 PM UTC
Sounds good what Folgore said. My only experiance has been with WN great paints as they come from the tube put a little on 3x5 card and make sure you use dry brushes or you get streaks. Only painted about 7 or 8 figures in last 10 years. Now waiting to get eyes right and will post them. But I use Humbrol flesh undercoat seems to be better tooth to paint as opposed to acrylic (:-) .

Maybe Arthur will chime in as he is a figure painter and have you checked out the article on mixing oils
http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=96
Eagle
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 02:30 AM UTC
Leader my man..... this is the same thing I ran into a week ago. I promissed in another post to do a "Operational Review" on a figure kit....... I wanted to do it three ways :

1. Bannerman way
2. Verlinden way
3. Gino Poppe way

At the first attempt I got stuck at excactly the same point you described. I think I applied the paint on the model too thick. I didn't have the brushstrokes visible, but when putting on shades and highlights they just blended in the basecolour, leaving no shades and highlights..... I cleaned the figures and will be doing another attempt next weekend.

I'll make pictures from each step next weekend. Maybe that helps others to comment on my approach...

I'll watch this thread very closely next coming days.
Arthur
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 03:51 AM UTC
okay Jeff i can take a hint,like you i undercoat with a flesh coloured enamel,it seems to key the oil better,and also helps the oils dry out,it all depend on the kind of face i want to paint,light or dark,if dark i will use quite a dark mix of base enamel,it is very improtant that you let this undercoat thoroughly dry out,i then use flesh colour straight from the tube,very very sparingly,then with a stipple brush take most of it off,this will give you an almost dry surface to work on,i then work on the shadows of the face ie. eyes, ears under chin and nose,under helmet or cap,and neck line,a good tip is when laying down the undecoat,cover the hair as well,when adding shadows you can work them into the hair instead of just having a straight line.I use Burnt Sienna for the shading,but it is really a matter of choice what you use,stipple rather than drag the brush for this,at this stage i like to put a small dab of red just below the cheek bones and stipple this in towards the ears,and put in a dark jaw line,mix some oil flesh and black,more flesh than black,and paint a tin stripe down the jaw line and between nose and mouth,stipple this in as well,it should blend with the red and flesh colour,at this stage i leave it to dry.When dried,i lighten the flesh colour with white and
lightly dry brush the highlights,if possible bush from the bottom up,chin to nose,and top to bottom,forehead to nose,block in thecomplete eye socket with whichever you want the colour to be,i suggest you use enamels for this,as ,if you make a mistake,they dry pretty quick and you can try again,When the eye colour has dried if you want the fig to look one way or the other,one spot of Off White one side or the other will give you that effect,then add pupil,and if you are feeling gutsy a white highlight in the centre.After this you can take the face as far or as little as you want,the trick is to take your time and know when to stop.
A final tip on dry brushing the face,when you have the paint on the brush,wipe the excess off
on your thumb,then you can tell how much is going on the figure,err on the side of caution.
Arthur
Am Alba Mannich
Folgore
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 04:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

i undercoat with a flesh coloured enamel,it seems to key the oil better,and also helps the oils dry out



Arthur--Does it make a difference whether the undercoat is enamel or acrylic? I use acrylic for flesh, and it takes about four days for the face to completley dry. When I painted some stowage on a tank using oils, the basecoat was in enamels and the paint dried in about one day. Is this what made the difference? If so, I'm switching to enamels for the undercoat, provided the oils won't eat away at it.

Nic
Arthur
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 05:10 AM UTC
Nic...its quite safe to use enamels,the best way is when you open the tin,give it a good stir,and take it from the bottom of the tin where it is thickest,this way you dont get all the spirit that lies on the top,it dries up the oils and the oil paint goes off quicker.The other way to make the oils go off quicker is to squeeze the paint onto a square of cardboard,try it and you will see the oil in the paint being absorbed....good painting.
Arthur
Am Alba mannich
sgtreef
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 08:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

okay Jeff i can take a hint,like you i undercoat with a flesh coloured enamel,it seems to key the oil better,and also helps the oils dry out,it all depend on the kind of face i want to paint,light or dark,if dark i will use quite a dark mix of base enamel,it is very improtant that you let this undercoat thoroughly dry out,i then use flesh colour straight from the tube,very very sparingly,then with a stipple brush take most of it off,this will give you an almost dry surface to work on,i then work on the shadows of the face ie. eyes, ears under chin and nose,under helmet or cap,and neck line,a good tip is when laying down the undecoat,cover the hair as well,when adding shadows you can work them into the hair instead of just having a straight line.I use Burnt Sienna for the shading,but it is really a matter of choice what you use,stipple rather than drag the brush for this,at this stage i like to put a small dab of red just below the cheek bones and stipple this in towards the ears,and put in a dark jaw line,mix some oil flesh and black,more flesh than black,and paint a tin stripe down the jaw line and between nose and mouth,stipple this in as well,it should blend with the red and flesh colour,at this stage i leave it to dry.When dried,i lighten the flesh colour with white and
lightly dry brush the highlights,if possible bush from the bottom up,chin to nose,and top to bottom,forehead to nose,block in thecomplete eye socket with whichever you want the colour to be,i suggest you use enamels for this,as ,if you make a mistake,they dry pretty quick and you can try again,When the eye colour has dried if you want the fig to look one way or the other,one spot of Off White one side or the other will give you that effect,then add pupil,and if you are feeling gutsy a white highlight in the centre.After this you can take the face as far or as little as you want,the trick is to take your time and know when to stop.
A final tip on dry brushing the face,when you have the paint on the brush,wipe the excess off
on your thumb,then you can tell how much is going on the figure,err on the side of caution.
Arthur
Am Alba Mannich



Just wanted the best talent (:-)
Arthur
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Posted: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 02:27 AM UTC
Flatter me!!! Flatter me!!!!! its good for my soul.
Arthur
Am Alba Mannich :-) :-) :-)
2112
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Canada
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Posted: Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 12:26 PM UTC
Greetings


Quoted Text


I'm attempting to paint my figures faces the Bannerman way ....a jabbing motion to put on the flesh colour. But when I try this it just doesnt work out. My oil paint mixture for the flesh is thick and when applying it on the face, it results in a thick layer with brush strokes very visible.



The trick is to keep the paint thin - not by thinning with thinners - but rather by applying it sparingly. The best way to avoid thick build-up is to dab your brush in the mixture and then rub excess paint on a rag (like drybrushing) then jab your brush onto the figure's face surface. It will take several jabs but you will eventually see a thin *skin* come to life. If it still seems too thick, run a wide dry brush down the figure's face lightly in a whisking motion to remove excess paint.

Cheers,

Mark Bannerman
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 12:20 AM UTC
Thank you for all your input, I'll definately have a look and try all the suggestions.

Have a good day
Leader