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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Lets go for acrylics ....
Roadkill
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Antwerpen, Belgium
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 01:40 AM UTC
Ok, After messing up to models with the wash I have decided to give acrylics a go.

I have bought some Tamiya Acrylics and was hoping on some tips of how to use them?
I have read that you could thin them with water, is this correct? I have a bottle of demineralised water.

Oh, a second question (a little of topic): at the botom of this topic You see a URL, why cant I have it highlighted and a link name attached to it?
Bravo-Comm
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 01:49 AM UTC
Road Kill:
With the Tamiya Paints you should not have to use any water or Mineral spirits to thin it. I usually paint with them Straight fronm the bottle. Though depending on the type of airbrush that you are using you will most likely need to pour it into a smaller bottle or cup and then atach it to your airbrush. I have an Aztek Contempo and Compressor set up. In which I painted parts on my current porject last night using the Tamiya Black straight from the bottle.
BUT if you do find yourself needing to thin it out. It should not require a great deal of work since the Acryilcs are a water based product anyway!!


DAGGER-1

Folgore
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 02:15 AM UTC
I was just talking to someone about this and he said you can thin them with just water, so you don't have to by the Tamiya thinner.
As for your second question, I figured out that you must use HTML code, not bbcode, for your signature. This site shows you how to type the code. Use the external link code, but instead of typing External Link where it says, type in what you want the viewer to see.

Nic
Folgore
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 02:17 AM UTC
Oh, it appears I've been made a captain somewhere along the line.
MichalBT
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Województwo Kieleckie, Poland
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 02:46 AM UTC
Hi,

I've been using acrylics for about 10 years. They are the best choice for airbrushing (I hate smell of mineral enamels- especially when you dissolve them with terpentine ) And they are excellent base for next steps of finishing your model: weathering and applying filters ( when you do it with mineral enamels).
If you like to use Tamiya or Gunze Sangyo acrylics (this is my favourite brand- just outstanding) you have to use special thinner from these companies. But you can use one brand thinner to dissolve paint of both brands. Few mintes ago I tested dissolving Tamiya paint with water and ethanol alcohol- both were unsuccesfull Maybe should I try methanol alcohol?
If you want to work with water-base acrylics- you can try Italian Lifecolor. But IMHO tjey are not as good as Tamiya and Gunze

Hope it helps,

Michal
sniper
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 02:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text



I have bought some Tamiya Acrylics and was hoping on some tips of how to use them?
I have read that you could thin them with water, is this correct? I have a bottle of demineralised water.




Well, I mostly use Tamiya Acrylics for my painting (oils and some enamels for washes, drybrushing, etc.) and thin them quite a bit.

I use 70% isopropol alcohol for my thinner. The Tamiya thinner is great but expensive.

I know lots of people use alcohol to use their paint and swear by it. I know lots will tell you otherwise!

I have not thinned these paints with water and don't really think it's advisable. There are some acrylics that you can thin with water, Tamiya is not one of them.

As I mentioned, I like my paint thin. Especially when going through the airbrush at low PSI's. I'm don't think I can give you exact paint to thinner ratios, but I like something the consistancy of 2% or 1% milk.

What I do is this; Get a clean empty paint bottle (empty Tamiya one's are what I use and my collections seems to be growing!) use a syringe or ink dropper to take your well mixed Tamiya paint out of its bottle and transfer it to the empty bottle. Then, add your thinner to get the proper consitency. You can then use this bottle to add more paint or thinner if needed, etc. I know some people will say that the thinned paint won't keep very well and should be discarded soon. I have found that I can use my thinned paints for days or weeks while working on a project and have had NO problems. Don't put thinned paints back in the original jar though.

A little paint will go a LONG way when properly thinned. Thinned paint also works great with a brush.

Remember, the thinned paint will not cover with one coat, you have to build it up gradually because it is somewhat transparent. This is what makes it so usefull. I try to do a lot of weathering, winter camo, etc. with my airbrush so I like to have a lot of control over the paint.

Practice a lot and I think you'll really like the Tamiya paints!

Steve
GeneralFailure
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 03:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Oh, it appears I've been made a captain somewhere along the line.



congratulations captain !
Nailz
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 03:44 AM UTC
I also use the Tamiya acrylics and thin them with 70% isopropyl alcohol, it works great through my airbrush. I thin at a 1 to 1 ratio and seems to work quite nicely for me. I do have to lay down more than one coat for coverage, but I think it works well....
GunTruck
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 03:51 AM UTC
Everyone has a method and style that works for them. Personally, I use the product(s) the manufacture recommends, in this case Tamiya Thinner. I've never used anything else. The small amount you might save in trying to find a cheaper expedient isn't worth the expense of recovering from a mishap later on.

Gunnie
BobTavis
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 04:11 AM UTC
Here is a whole forum dedicated to Tamiya paint.

I believe Tamiya is alcohol based to ensure quick drying which is better for airbrushing than paint brushing. However, alcohol comes in many flavors so I would stick to the Tamiya brand unless you know exactly what is in their formula to avoid problems.
sniper
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 04:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Personally, I use the product(s) the manufacture recommends, in this case Tamiya Thinner. I've never used anything else. The small amount you might save in trying to find a cheaper expedient isn't worth the expense of recovering from a mishap later on.

Gunnie



I think this is one thing Gunnie and I don't agree on!

I'm always trying to find similar products outside of the specialty hobby market. I would rather put the money saved back into kits, aftermarket, etc.

I have used both the Tamiya thinner and the alcohol and find them similar, so I have no reservations about the alcohol. Like I said, I didn't invent the method. I jsut accuired it from those who know more then I ever will!

Not sure about Gunnie, but I have to pay $3 for a few ounces of Tamiya thinner. I can get a gallon of isopropol alcohol for the same amount at the pharmacy.

I did ask this question on another web site once and spoke with someone who was trying to figure out what exactly Tamiya thinner was made of so he could then make a "homebrew." Not sure if anyone found out what the stuff is yet.

I will say that no matter what you use to thin the Tamiya acrylics, you need to be carefull that the paint doesn't dry before it hits the model! That's one big thing in learning to use this kind of paint. Compared to other types of paint, this stuff dries fast. That's why it's so much easier to dry drush with emamels or oils.

And, lots depends on room temperature, humidty....

Oh, I also use the alcohol to clean up with and will run some srtaight alcohol through the airbrush when changing colors or cleaning it out. I then will use regualr airbrush cleaner for a final step.

Steve
GunTruck
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 05:22 AM UTC
No problem there Steve - I'm not seeking agreement, nor do I think a person should bank on everything I or someone else says

What I am saying, conservatively, is that manufacturers make recommendations on products that work best with others. Mixing something else in safely comes with experience - and I've never recommend a person new to a material or medium to cut corners the first time out - that's all.

Experienced modelers and painters know what works with some products, and what doesn't with others. That's great for sharing on that level, but I was considering someone new to the craft. To me, it's like recommending to a modeler new to AFV's that it's okay not to paint the insides of the road wheels on a tank model - because they're hard to see...

Gunnie
Roadkill
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 05:41 AM UTC
Where could I find"isopropyl alcohol"?
sniper
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 06:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Where could I find"isopropyl alcohol"?



I buy it in the States at the grocery store or pharmacy (chemist, drug store, etc.).

It's commonly called alcohol or rubbing alcohol.The stuff you use to wipe your skin before you get a shot at the doctors. It should be very common. It will say isopropyl somewhere on the label.

Make sure you don't get the green stuff, it has menthol in it for giving massages!
TreadHead
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 06:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

....... The small amount you might save in trying to find a cheaper expedient isn't worth the expense of recovering from a mishap later on.

Gunnie



As usual great input Gunnie, I've been trying to say this all along....only I say it the 'long-way' apparently.

Tread.

Oh, and P.S., this is where Gunnie and completely agree. My time is worth more than the few pesos I might save by using 'scrubbing bubbles' , pamprin, or any other alternative product. That's not to say that the alternatives aren't viable. Only, that one of the few positive attributes of being from the old school, is that I've worked long enough, and saved enough money, that I can now pick and choos my mediums......that's all.

sniper
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 10:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text



Oh, and P.S., this is where Gunnie and completely agree. My time is worth more than the few pesos I might save by using 'scrubbing bubbles' , pamprin, or any other alternative product. That's not to say that the alternatives aren't viable. Only, that one of the few positive attributes of being from the old school, is that I've worked long enough, and saved enough money, that I can now pick and choos my mediums......that's all.




I really wish someone could explain 'old school' to me. I don't think using products that don't say MODEL on them has anything to do with a certain 'school.'

If someone wants to use a certain product, that's a decision that could be based on many things. Cost being or not being one of them.

As far as making an assumption as to one's income level or amount of disposable income, I don't think that has anything to do with alternative products. Maybe I haven't worked as long as someone else, but I am fortunate that I can afford all of the modeling stuff I want. I'm a lucky guy when it comes to finances. But, I don't like spending money for overpriced products either. (Learned that from grocery shopping with Mom! )

That makes me neither poor nor cheap. I am making a decision on where I want MY money to go.

As I mentioned before, I have a fine arts degree and work in a creative field (oh, and I've been teaching art and design at the college level for the last three years) so I certainly understand using alternative products. Lots of artists will use many different (even some really strange) materials in their particular mediums. I encourage my students to EXPERIMENT and really get an understanding of the materials they are using. I hope for (happy) accidents when trying new things. This is what leads to new IDEAS.

Just check out an issue of Fine Scale Modeler and you will see people talking about all sorts of sources.

If 'old school' means not trying alternatives for fear of failure (loss of something that costs money??) and 'new school' means not being afraid of new processes and experimenting and maybe learning something new and even ruining a few things, I guess I'd be happy to say I'm 'new school.'

Personally, I don't like to label anyone. To each his own. (I too use Tamiya thinner for some things as I mentioned above.) But, I do think the enjoyment of this hobby is in the building and finishing and I like to try something new on each project. If someone says try Pamprin, why not, I may love the results!

Steve



Roadkill
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Posted: Thursday, July 11, 2002 - 01:22 AM UTC
Hi,

I think the answer to the following questing is for the Dutch speaking people:

My wife went to "Etos" in Maastricht and bought me a bottle of alcohol. But I am not sure it is the right one.

it says "Gedenatureerde alcohol 70%", is it a fair match to isopropyl alcohol?
GunTruck
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Posted: Thursday, July 11, 2002 - 01:26 AM UTC
[quote]
Quoted Text



Oh, and P.S., this is where Gunnie and completely agree. My time is worth more than the few pesos I might save by using 'scrubbing bubbles' , pamprin, or any other alternative product. That's not to say that the alternatives aren't viable. Only, that one of the few positive attributes of being from the old school, is that I've worked long enough, and saved enough money, that I can now pick and choos my mediums......that's all.





Quoted Text

I really wish someone could explain 'old school' to me. I don't think using products that don't say MODEL on them has anything to do with a certain 'school.'



Don't think Tread means any harm there Steve . For the most part, "Old School" means just simply crossing the "t" and dotting the "i". It's a statement of conservativism - not a slam or dig against "New School". In this case, the difference I believe Tread is alluding to is the tried & true approach (using what's recommended) versus venturing out and applying new twists to the old approach - not a dissertation on what's right or wrong.


Quoted Text

If someone wants to use a certain product, that's a decision that could be based on many things. Cost being or not being one of them.

As far as making an assumption as to one's income level or amount of disposable income, I don't think that has anything to do with alternative products. Maybe I haven't worked as long as someone else, but I am fortunate that I can afford all of the modeling stuff I want. I'm a lucky guy when it comes to finances. But, I don't like spending money for overpriced products either. (Learned that from grocery shopping with Mom! )

That makes me neither poor nor cheap. I am making a decision on where I want MY money to go.



Again, not to put words into Tread's mouth - and he'll surely correct me if I'm wrong - but no dig was meant there either. There are a lot of ways to get to an OD Finish on a model. Everyone has a thought on how to do it, and favorite methods to get there. His is an expression towards having tried many - this is the approach he takes. Your statement is the same too. Both have a system that's comfortable and works - though different. I said the same thing too. I will never cajole anyone here or anywhere else into following my every suggestion or comment as if Gospel. And, personally, I loath anyone who thinks their every thought is somehow a greater reality than someone elses.

What I commenented on was just simply a recommendation that someone new to a process learn how the process works before learning to cut corners with it. An "Old School" approach, no dig intended against trying a substitute.


Quoted Text

As I mentioned before, I have a fine arts degree and work in a creative field (oh, and I've been teaching art and design at the college level for the last three years) so I certainly understand using alternative products. Lots of artists will use many different (even some really strange) materials in their particular mediums. I encourage my students to EXPERIMENT and really get an understanding of the materials they are using. I hope for (happy) accidents when trying new things. This is what leads to new IDEAS.

Just check out an issue of Fine Scale Modeler and you will see people talking about all sorts of sources.



Again another time - I doubt Tread was "calling 'ya out". What you just described is the "New School" approach. Personally, just sharing my perspective with you, I don't find the same value in FSM. It helps a lot of modelers, though, and it's good for spawning new ideas for model builders. It's great, for the audience it's geared towards, and though it provides inspiration to try new ideas - it also sets the foundation that a modeler should learn before branching out. I think branching out before you get a grasp of the basics is what leads to frustration later on. When things don't work the way you expected them to - you're missing the foundation to fall back on and start again. More "Old School" thinking there...


Quoted Text

If 'old school' means not trying alternatives for fear of failure (loss of something that costs money??) and 'new school' means not being afraid of new processes and experimenting and maybe learning something new and even ruining a few things, I guess I'd be happy to say I'm 'new school.'



Nope - hopefully I selected sentences to illustrate "Old" and "New" better. "Old" schoolers try as much as any "New" schooler - they mess-up and grow equally. Just because one recommends that you follow instructions doesn't mean that they're stoggidy old farts! Just because someone else recommends you don't have to follow the instructions - using "Brand A" would work as well doesn't mean that you're an impatient twit! Again, the road to an OD Finish has many forks...


Quoted Text

Personally, I don't like to label anyone. To each his own. (I too use Tamiya thinner for some things as I mentioned above.) But, I do think the enjoyment of this hobby is in the building and finishing and I like to try something new on each project. If someone says try Pamprin, why not, I may love the results!



Ahh, the fun of this Forum. Though I subscribe to "Old School" methodology, the things I've learned and do with my modeling certainly didn't come to me in a dream over these many years. What I consider "normal" is unorthodox to others - dare I say - "New School" in the approach. Just a matter of perspective. Tread said that too - at least that's the impression I felt when reading his comments.

Gunnie (vowing not to have another cup of coffee this morning)
Nailz
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Posted: Thursday, July 11, 2002 - 01:55 AM UTC
Yes RoadKill, you did find the right stuff, that will work just fine for thinning your paint.
Roadkill
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Posted: Thursday, July 11, 2002 - 03:52 AM UTC
Tnx Nailz