Florida, United States
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
Armorama: 157 posts
Posted: Friday, July 31, 2020 - 03:20 PM UTC
Here are some pictures of my completed Dragon 1/35 firefly Vc
I puched out some chrome mylar from a chip bag to use as the headlight reflectors.
This particular Firefly was knocked out by Michael Wittmann during his attack at Villars Bocage on June 13th, 1944. I don't know the fate of the crew and hopefully they all survived.
Too little time, too many models to build..........
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: June 28, 2020
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 133 posts
Posted: Friday, July 31, 2020 - 04:02 PM UTC
Ah, the famous Villars Bocage engagement. Did Wittmann not knock out basically a whole squadron of Cromwells?
This is a great subject, and a great model. I really like what you did with the head lamps and the chip bag. I will have to keep that in mind.
Dan.
Florida, United States
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
Armorama: 157 posts
Posted: Friday, July 31, 2020 - 04:38 PM UTC
Thanks Dan. Yes I use the chip bag trick whenever possible specially for aircraft landing lights. You can add a drop or two of Testors Clear Parts Cement for the lens and it looks pretty convincing.
I believe Wittmann killed 21 tanks and a bunch of APC's in about 15 minutes! Quite a feat indeed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwyQ9sjNjr8 Too little time, too many models to build..........
New South Wales, Australia
Joined: February 28, 2006
KitMaker: 1,605 posts
Armorama: 1,565 posts
Posted: Friday, July 31, 2020 - 07:50 PM UTC
Whilst it is a lovely finish I can assure you that set of markings are not the vehicle knocked out at VB, You appear to have used half of the Sharpsooters (4 CLY) markings but used a 27 Armoured brigade Formation Marking rather than a 7AD one. As for the claims of Wittman vs reality it was 14 AFV including the MO's halftrack, 3 Sturt tanks, 3 unarmed HQ tanks, Lyod carriers and a one Firefly with crew dismounted. he seentially caught them on a Halt break with no security, very fortuitous for him but the claims over the years and at the time were ridiculous, probably one of hte most studied and disected actions of the war. The German Propaganda machine twisted it out of all proportion and the Germans lost about the same at VB as the British did including five tigers one of which was Wittmans
Florida, United States
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
Armorama: 157 posts
Posted: Friday, July 31, 2020 - 11:33 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Whilst it is a lovely finish I can assure you that set of markings are not the vehicle knocked out at VB, You appear to have used half of the Sharpsooters (4 CLY) markings but used a 27 Armoured brigade Formation Marking rather than a 7AD one. As for the claims of Wittman vs reality it was 14 AFV including the MO's halftrack, 3 Sturt tanks, 3 unarmed HQ tanks, Lyod carriers and a one Firefly with crew dismounted. he seentially caught them on a Halt break with no security, very fortuitous for him but the claims over the years and at the time were ridiculous, probably one of hte most studied and disected actions of the war. The German Propaganda machine twisted it out of all proportion and the Germans lost about the same at VB as the British did including five tigers one of which was Wittmans
Well there you go, both the YouTube documentary and the supplied Dragon decals are incorrect.
Too little time, too many models to build..........
New South Wales, Australia
Joined: February 28, 2006
KitMaker: 1,605 posts
Armorama: 1,565 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2020 - 07:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Whilst it is a lovely finish I can assure you that set of markings are not the vehicle knocked out at VB, You appear to have used half of the Sharpsooters (4 CLY) markings but used a 27 Armoured brigade Formation Marking rather than a 7AD one. As for the claims of Wittman vs reality it was 14 AFV including the MO's halftrack, 3 Sturt tanks, 3 unarmed HQ tanks, Lyod carriers and a one Firefly with crew dismounted. he seentially caught them on a Halt break with no security, very fortuitous for him but the claims over the years and at the time were ridiculous, probably one of hte most studied and disected actions of the war. The German Propaganda machine twisted it out of all proportion and the Germans lost about the same at VB as the British did including five tigers one of which was Wittmans
Well there you go, both the YouTube documentary and the supplied Dragon decals are incorrect.
Yes, the kit decals are incorrect however I am pretty sure DML have the correct markings in the box it is just that they leave the AOS and Formation Marking option for "Carole" on the artwork for "Allafakeek". Lookup the Battle of Villers Bocage and look at the Units involved. 27 AB were nowhere near it as it was a 7 Armd Div engagement. 4 CLY which this vehicle belonged in A Sqn 4 Tp was the junior regiment of 23 AB the AB of 7 Armoured Div.
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
Armorama: 965 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2020 - 08:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Whilst it is a lovely finish I can assure you that set of markings are not the vehicle knocked out at VB, You appear to have used half of the Sharpsooters (4 CLY) markings but used a 27 Armoured brigade Formation Marking rather than a 7AD one. As for the claims of Wittman vs reality it was 14 AFV including the MO's halftrack, 3 Sturt tanks, 3 unarmed HQ tanks, Lyod carriers and a one Firefly with crew dismounted. he seentially caught them on a Halt break with no security, very fortuitous for him but the claims over the years and at the time were ridiculous, probably one of hte most studied and disected actions of the war. The German Propaganda machine twisted it out of all proportion and the Germans lost about the same at VB as the British did including five tigers one of which was Wittmans
Well there you go, both the YouTube documentary and the supplied Dragon decals are incorrect.
Yes, the kit decals are incorrect however I am pretty sure DML have the correct markings in the box it is just that they leave the AOS and Formation Marking option for "Carole" on the artwork for "Allafakeek". Lookup the Battle of Villers Bocage and look at the Units involved. 27 AB were nowhere near it as it was a 7 Armd Div engagement. 4 CLY which this vehicle belonged in A Sqn 4 Tp was the junior regiment of 23 AB the AB of 7 Armoured Div.
Al,
You're a digit out: the Armoured Brigade was 22nd, not 23rd.
I seem to recall that they also had a combined formation sign of a stag's head over the desert rat insignia but I'll let the WW2 Ninjas confirm that; I'm away from my reference material at the moment.
So Ernie, if you wish to still replicate a tank from the action at Villers Bocage you'll have to tweak your model a bit with replacement formation signs, and also a revised arm of service number which for 4 CLY should be 53. I'm pretty sure the respective markings are all available form decal specialists.
Brian
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 20, 2004
KitMaker: 2,439 posts
Armorama: 1,980 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2020 - 10:46 PM UTC
You might want to lose the 50 cal as British troops rarely used them,also this vehicle only had a single radio box fitted to the rear turret no stowage box and i'm sure it had no pistol port.
Never in the field of scale modelling was so much owed by so many to so few.
Florida, United States
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
Armorama: 157 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2020 - 01:38 AM UTC
Thanks for the updated info. The reason for the extra storage locker on the radio box is that I was doing another Firefly using Star Decals that where simply awful. The Film was super thick and looked like frosted Scotch Tape with tons of silvering even over the gloss coat so I had to take those off and went with the Dragon decals.
I contacted Star Decals and got excellent customer support from them. They assured me it was a bad sheet and was sent another set to try out. Since I had used the Dragon sheet, I requested a different one which was promptly sent.
Too little time, too many models to build..........
Florida, United States
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
Armorama: 157 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2020 - 02:15 AM UTC
ok so I'm looking at Star decal Sheet #35-921 containing the markings for this particular Firefly. I only see up front a number 30 in a yellow circle marking nothing else. Rear has no markings. Sides have the T number on both sides? I thought it was on the right side only. Turret markings look consistent with my current ones.
Does Star Decals have the correct markings?
Too little time, too many models to build..........
Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2020 - 06:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Whilst it is a lovely finish I can assure you that set of markings are not the vehicle knocked out at VB, You appear to have used half of the Sharpsooters (4 CLY) markings but used a 27 Armoured brigade Formation Marking rather than a 7AD one. As for the claims of Wittman vs reality it was 14 AFV including the MO's halftrack, 3 Sturt tanks, 3 unarmed HQ tanks, Lyod carriers and a one Firefly with crew dismounted. he seentially caught them on a Halt break with no security, very fortuitous for him but the claims over the years and at the time were ridiculous, probably one of hte most studied and disected actions of the war. The German Propaganda machine twisted it out of all proportion and the Germans lost about the same at VB as the British did including five tigers one of which was Wittmans
Right, many people look at the 7th AD losses and the resulting pull back from Villers Bocage and not factor in German losses. Who would really like to trade 5 Tigers for 7th AD losses? Actually Whittman was very lucky on that first trip. If one of those Cromwells had been a little quicker, or had a gunner in the turret, his war might have ended there.
Model is well done, and UK markings can be a real nightmare.
I found a nifty feature on the forums called HIDE USER.
I was going to try it on myself and go stealth, but it only works on other users.
Florida, United States
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
Armorama: 157 posts
Posted: Monday, August 03, 2020 - 03:19 PM UTC
Ok you guys got me fired up with this mess so I'm in the process of scratch building the sand skirts, correcting the marking issue and deleting the pistol port.
One question I do have is what are the two bar looking things on the hull sides? It's short on the right and long on the left hull side. Are these steel bars for attaching foliage?
Too little time, too many models to build..........
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 20, 2004
KitMaker: 2,439 posts
Armorama: 1,980 posts
Posted: Monday, August 03, 2020 - 07:02 PM UTC
The bars were used for attaching the houseboat a canvas cover thingy,not sure if it was for disguise or deep wading.
Good look with your modifications
Never in the field of scale modelling was so much owed by so many to so few.
United States
Joined: February 19, 2009
KitMaker: 1,139 posts
Armorama: 1,100 posts
Posted: Monday, August 03, 2020 - 10:17 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The bars were used for attaching the houseboat a canvas cover thingy,not sure if it was for disguise or deep wading.
Good look with your modifications
Not sure if anyone knows this but there is a flaw with the lower hull on all of dragons M4A4 and Firefly kits the the lower hull is about 3/8 of a inch too long meaning there is too much spacing between the rear idler and last road wheel regardless of the Sherman variant the spacing between the rear idler and last road wheel is the same
Florida, United States
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
Armorama: 157 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 01:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The bars were used for attaching the houseboat a canvas cover thingy,not sure if it was for disguise or deep wading.
Good look with your modifications
Great to know, thanks.
Too little time, too many models to build..........
Florida, United States
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
Armorama: 157 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 01:32 AM UTC
Thanks for the info Nick.
Too little time, too many models to build..........
Virginia, United States
Joined: July 05, 2004
KitMaker: 769 posts
Armorama: 461 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 04:46 AM UTC
Hi Ernie,
Tank looks great. The hull and the turret are fine. Yes, the hulls on the Firefly are longer, but the boogies were moved to accommodate for it. Also, the shell ejection port was on all Fireflies.
Jesse
Time is a great teacher. Unfortunately, it kills all it's students.
Florida, United States
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
Armorama: 157 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 05:47 AM UTC
Thanks Jesse. Look at the turret of Allakeefek
https://www.strijdbewijs.nl/uitbraak/vil30.jpg Too little time, too many models to build..........
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 20, 2004
KitMaker: 2,439 posts
Armorama: 1,980 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 05:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Also, the shell ejection port was on all Fireflies.
Jesse
No they weren't
Never in the field of scale modelling was so much owed by so many to so few.
Virginia, United States
Joined: July 05, 2004
KitMaker: 769 posts
Armorama: 461 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 10:58 AM UTC
I stand corrected! Not on all, but they were on some. Check out Osprey's book on the Firefly and the Sherman Minute web site. There are several pics of VC's and IC's with them.
Jesse
Time is a great teacher. Unfortunately, it kills all it's students.
Florida, United States
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
Armorama: 157 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 11:34 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I stand corrected! Not on all, but they were on some. Check out Osprey's book on the Firefly and the Sherman Minute web site. There are several pics of VC's and IC's with them.
Jesse
Yes you are correct Jesse, some had them but the particular one I’m modeling did not. Dragon even messed up on the markings. Thanks for your input.
Too little time, too many models to build..........
Virginia, United States
Joined: July 05, 2004
KitMaker: 769 posts
Armorama: 461 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 11:59 AM UTC
Either way, you did a great job on it.
Jesse
Time is a great teacher. Unfortunately, it kills all it's students.
Florida, United States
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
Armorama: 157 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 02:04 PM UTC
Too little time, too many models to build..........
Florida, United States
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
Armorama: 157 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 - 12:35 AM UTC
Trying to update the title showing it as "Updated" but unable to do so. Corrections made to the build.
Too little time, too many models to build..........
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 20, 2004
KitMaker: 2,439 posts
Armorama: 1,980 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 - 05:01 AM UTC
That looks much better great job
Never in the field of scale modelling was so much owed by so many to so few.
