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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Dragon Firefly Vc
plastickjunkie
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Friday, July 31, 2020 - 03:20 PM UTC
Here are some pictures of my completed Dragon 1/35 firefly Vc








I puched out some chrome mylar from a chip bag to use as the headlight reflectors.



This particular Firefly was knocked out by Michael Wittmann during his attack at Villars Bocage on June 13th, 1944. I don't know the fate of the crew and hopefully they all survived.
UpperCanadian
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Posted: Friday, July 31, 2020 - 04:02 PM UTC
Ah, the famous Villars Bocage engagement. Did Wittmann not knock out basically a whole squadron of Cromwells?

This is a great subject, and a great model. I really like what you did with the head lamps and the chip bag. I will have to keep that in mind.

Dan.
plastickjunkie
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Posted: Friday, July 31, 2020 - 04:38 PM UTC
Thanks Dan. Yes I use the chip bag trick whenever possible specially for aircraft landing lights. You can add a drop or two of Testors Clear Parts Cement for the lens and it looks pretty convincing.

I believe Wittmann killed 21 tanks and a bunch of APC's in about 15 minutes! Quite a feat indeed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwyQ9sjNjr8
ALBOWIE
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Posted: Friday, July 31, 2020 - 07:50 PM UTC
Whilst it is a lovely finish I can assure you that set of markings are not the vehicle knocked out at VB, You appear to have used half of the Sharpsooters (4 CLY) markings but used a 27 Armoured brigade Formation Marking rather than a 7AD one. As for the claims of Wittman vs reality it was 14 AFV including the MO's halftrack, 3 Sturt tanks, 3 unarmed HQ tanks, Lyod carriers and a one Firefly with crew dismounted. he seentially caught them on a Halt break with no security, very fortuitous for him but the claims over the years and at the time were ridiculous, probably one of hte most studied and disected actions of the war. The German Propaganda machine twisted it out of all proportion and the Germans lost about the same at VB as the British did including five tigers one of which was Wittmans


plastickjunkie
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Posted: Friday, July 31, 2020 - 11:33 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Whilst it is a lovely finish I can assure you that set of markings are not the vehicle knocked out at VB, You appear to have used half of the Sharpsooters (4 CLY) markings but used a 27 Armoured brigade Formation Marking rather than a 7AD one. As for the claims of Wittman vs reality it was 14 AFV including the MO's halftrack, 3 Sturt tanks, 3 unarmed HQ tanks, Lyod carriers and a one Firefly with crew dismounted. he seentially caught them on a Halt break with no security, very fortuitous for him but the claims over the years and at the time were ridiculous, probably one of hte most studied and disected actions of the war. The German Propaganda machine twisted it out of all proportion and the Germans lost about the same at VB as the British did including five tigers one of which was Wittmans





Well there you go, both the YouTube documentary and the supplied Dragon decals are incorrect.
ALBOWIE
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Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2020 - 07:46 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Whilst it is a lovely finish I can assure you that set of markings are not the vehicle knocked out at VB, You appear to have used half of the Sharpsooters (4 CLY) markings but used a 27 Armoured brigade Formation Marking rather than a 7AD one. As for the claims of Wittman vs reality it was 14 AFV including the MO's halftrack, 3 Sturt tanks, 3 unarmed HQ tanks, Lyod carriers and a one Firefly with crew dismounted. he seentially caught them on a Halt break with no security, very fortuitous for him but the claims over the years and at the time were ridiculous, probably one of hte most studied and disected actions of the war. The German Propaganda machine twisted it out of all proportion and the Germans lost about the same at VB as the British did including five tigers one of which was Wittmans





Well there you go, both the YouTube documentary and the supplied Dragon decals are incorrect.



Yes, the kit decals are incorrect however I am pretty sure DML have the correct markings in the box it is just that they leave the AOS and Formation Marking option for "Carole" on the artwork for "Allafakeek". Lookup the Battle of Villers Bocage and look at the Units involved. 27 AB were nowhere near it as it was a 7 Armd Div engagement. 4 CLY which this vehicle belonged in A Sqn 4 Tp was the junior regiment of 23 AB the AB of 7 Armoured Div.




BootsDMS
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Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2020 - 08:57 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Whilst it is a lovely finish I can assure you that set of markings are not the vehicle knocked out at VB, You appear to have used half of the Sharpsooters (4 CLY) markings but used a 27 Armoured brigade Formation Marking rather than a 7AD one. As for the claims of Wittman vs reality it was 14 AFV including the MO's halftrack, 3 Sturt tanks, 3 unarmed HQ tanks, Lyod carriers and a one Firefly with crew dismounted. he seentially caught them on a Halt break with no security, very fortuitous for him but the claims over the years and at the time were ridiculous, probably one of hte most studied and disected actions of the war. The German Propaganda machine twisted it out of all proportion and the Germans lost about the same at VB as the British did including five tigers one of which was Wittmans





Well there you go, both the YouTube documentary and the supplied Dragon decals are incorrect.



Yes, the kit decals are incorrect however I am pretty sure DML have the correct markings in the box it is just that they leave the AOS and Formation Marking option for "Carole" on the artwork for "Allafakeek". Lookup the Battle of Villers Bocage and look at the Units involved. 27 AB were nowhere near it as it was a 7 Armd Div engagement. 4 CLY which this vehicle belonged in A Sqn 4 Tp was the junior regiment of 23 AB the AB of 7 Armoured Div.







Al,

You're a digit out: the Armoured Brigade was 22nd, not 23rd.

I seem to recall that they also had a combined formation sign of a stag's head over the desert rat insignia but I'll let the WW2 Ninjas confirm that; I'm away from my reference material at the moment.

So Ernie, if you wish to still replicate a tank from the action at Villers Bocage you'll have to tweak your model a bit with replacement formation signs, and also a revised arm of service number which for 4 CLY should be 53. I'm pretty sure the respective markings are all available form decal specialists.

Brian

PanzerKarl
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Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2020 - 10:46 PM UTC
You might want to lose the 50 cal as British troops rarely used them,also this vehicle only had a single radio box fitted to the rear turret no stowage box and i'm sure it had no pistol port.
plastickjunkie
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Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2020 - 01:38 AM UTC
Thanks for the updated info. The reason for the extra storage locker on the radio box is that I was doing another Firefly using Star Decals that where simply awful. The Film was super thick and looked like frosted Scotch Tape with tons of silvering even over the gloss coat so I had to take those off and went with the Dragon decals.

I contacted Star Decals and got excellent customer support from them. They assured me it was a bad sheet and was sent another set to try out. Since I had used the Dragon sheet, I requested a different one which was promptly sent.
plastickjunkie
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Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2020 - 02:15 AM UTC
ok so I'm looking at Star decal Sheet #35-921 containing the markings for this particular Firefly. I only see up front a number 30 in a yellow circle marking nothing else. Rear has no markings. Sides have the T number on both sides? I thought it was on the right side only. Turret markings look consistent with my current ones.

Does Star Decals have the correct markings?
m4sherman
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Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2020 - 06:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Whilst it is a lovely finish I can assure you that set of markings are not the vehicle knocked out at VB, You appear to have used half of the Sharpsooters (4 CLY) markings but used a 27 Armoured brigade Formation Marking rather than a 7AD one. As for the claims of Wittman vs reality it was 14 AFV including the MO's halftrack, 3 Sturt tanks, 3 unarmed HQ tanks, Lyod carriers and a one Firefly with crew dismounted. he seentially caught them on a Halt break with no security, very fortuitous for him but the claims over the years and at the time were ridiculous, probably one of hte most studied and disected actions of the war. The German Propaganda machine twisted it out of all proportion and the Germans lost about the same at VB as the British did including five tigers one of which was Wittmans




Right, many people look at the 7th AD losses and the resulting pull back from Villers Bocage and not factor in German losses. Who would really like to trade 5 Tigers for 7th AD losses? Actually Whittman was very lucky on that first trip. If one of those Cromwells had been a little quicker, or had a gunner in the turret, his war might have ended there.

Model is well done, and UK markings can be a real nightmare.
plastickjunkie
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Posted: Monday, August 03, 2020 - 03:19 PM UTC
Ok you guys got me fired up with this mess so I'm in the process of scratch building the sand skirts, correcting the marking issue and deleting the pistol port.
One question I do have is what are the two bar looking things on the hull sides? It's short on the right and long on the left hull side. Are these steel bars for attaching foliage?
PanzerKarl
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Posted: Monday, August 03, 2020 - 07:02 PM UTC
The bars were used for attaching the houseboat a canvas cover thingy,not sure if it was for disguise or deep wading.

Good look with your modifications
tanknick22
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Posted: Monday, August 03, 2020 - 10:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The bars were used for attaching the houseboat a canvas cover thingy,not sure if it was for disguise or deep wading.

Good look with your modifications



Not sure if anyone knows this but there is a flaw with the lower hull on all of dragons M4A4 and Firefly kits the the lower hull is about 3/8 of a inch too long meaning there is too much spacing between the rear idler and last road wheel regardless of the Sherman variant the spacing between the rear idler and last road wheel is the same
plastickjunkie
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 01:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The bars were used for attaching the houseboat a canvas cover thingy,not sure if it was for disguise or deep wading.

Good look with your modifications




Great to know, thanks.
plastickjunkie
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 01:32 AM UTC
Thanks for the info Nick.
oldbean
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Virginia, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 04:46 AM UTC
Hi Ernie,
Tank looks great. The hull and the turret are fine. Yes, the hulls on the Firefly are longer, but the boogies were moved to accommodate for it. Also, the shell ejection port was on all Fireflies.

Jesse
plastickjunkie
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 05:47 AM UTC
Thanks Jesse. Look at the turret of Allakeefek
https://www.strijdbewijs.nl/uitbraak/vil30.jpg
PanzerKarl
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 05:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Also, the shell ejection port was on all Fireflies.

Jesse



No they weren't



oldbean
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 10:58 AM UTC
I stand corrected! Not on all, but they were on some. Check out Osprey's book on the Firefly and the Sherman Minute web site. There are several pics of VC's and IC's with them.
Jesse
plastickjunkie
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 11:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I stand corrected! Not on all, but they were on some. Check out Osprey's book on the Firefly and the Sherman Minute web site. There are several pics of VC's and IC's with them.
Jesse



Yes you are correct Jesse, some had them but the particular one Im modeling did not. Dragon even messed up on the markings. Thanks for your input.
oldbean
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 11:59 AM UTC
Either way, you did a great job on it.

Jesse
plastickjunkie
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 - 02:04 PM UTC
Thanks Jesse!

Hopefully I corrected everything on this build. The sand skirts were scratched out from thin card stock. The wading bars and side clips were made from scrap PE fret frames. The Allakeefek art work was hand painted with a #10/0 brush. The pistol port was carefully removed using a paper thin razor saw then the area was sanded smooth and textured with Mr. Surfacer 500 to recreate the cast iron texture. The missing T number on the left hull side was put together from spares.
















plastickjunkie
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Posted: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 - 12:35 AM UTC
Trying to update the title showing it as "Updated" but unable to do so. Corrections made to the build.
PanzerKarl
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Posted: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 - 05:01 AM UTC
That looks much better great job