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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Weird matt varnish effect
tankerken6011
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New Mexico, United States
Joined: December 04, 2013
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2020 - 10:40 AM UTC
Most important point of this whole post: If you want to try something new, try it on a scrap model or piece of plastic first! Do not risk your precious model!
Ken.
BunkerBuster
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2019 - 01:47 AM UTC
Testors Acryl clear flat is probably the deadest flat I've ever seen. Thin it 50:50 with the testors thinner and it will hide that orange peal effect you were having.

Mixing brands of thinner and paint should be used as a last resort to get a product to work for you. If it doesn't congeal when you mix the paint and thinner, then you are probably safe.
Wierdy
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Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 - 06:53 PM UTC
If stripping paint off the plastic is not an option because you don't want to repaint the model, take the finest/most delicate sandpaper and try wet sanding. It might work by making the flat panels look flat again. If you are careful enough and due to thick matt layer, you won't damage the paintwork underneath, but will make your matt coat smooth. Tedious, time-consuming, but effective way to save the whole thing!
HTH,
Paul
165thspc
#0
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Kentucky, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 - 03:58 PM UTC
New Tamiya color RED OXIDE:

.

Good for Model Railroaders and Armor alike!
165thspc
#0
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Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 - 03:44 PM UTC
OK, I admit this may no longer apply to the subject at hand. I am just posting it as an informational share to the group.


Fresh paint - Tamiya Red Oxide Primer (New color from Tamiya.)



Decals applied - Future Floor Wax applied by brush both under and over the decal to entome the transfers and hide the edges. (No Solvset used)
I know this looks gross (bad) however please read on.



Finished models - Tamiya Flat Clear (TS-80) applied over the fully dry Future Floor Wax - Clear is first applied heavily, then allowed to dry - Final coating of clear was sprayed at a distance (18" to 24") and allowed to go on as a dry dusting.In the final dusting the Flat Clear paint "falls" on rather than being sprayed onto the model.
Scarred
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Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 - 04:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Correct Tamiya TS-80 Flat Clear



Thanks, I'll over a can next time I'm doing an order.
blacksad
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: September 07, 2009
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Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 - 03:45 AM UTC
Probably playing opfor there.
165thspc
#0
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Kentucky, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 - 01:36 AM UTC
OMG!

Looks to be a good substitute for the digital style "Urban" camo. Not so useful however in the green wood.
Frenchy
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Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 - 01:15 AM UTC
As a last resort, here's a Plan B camo option for your Leclerc (it's the French equivalent of a "Paper" panzer )



Full size



Full size

H.P.
165thspc
#0
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Kentucky, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 - 12:06 AM UTC
Correct Tamiya TS-80 Flat Clear
blacksad
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: September 07, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 - 10:42 PM UTC
Hello all,

Thanks again for giving your 2c on this. Rattle cans varnishes are not an antiquated product, it's just that my mistake can hardly be reset to zero now. I still have some ammo containers to varnish that will go in my tank diorama, so I'll be able to get some ak thinner for these parts and see how the varnish will do this time. Anyway, as said earlier, a good weathering can make you forget about your paint issues and still make your model look good. I began to apply scratches and pigments to the hull and skirts, which will be followed by mud later on. I'm happy to see that the orange peel effect is hardly discernable now, and that the camo blends in quite well. Stripping off the paint wasn't an option for me; too much work was put into the model, I prefer to adapt to the consequences of my mistake, learn from it, and try to find a way that will make it look good.



Scarred
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Posted: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 - 09:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Patrick, I promise the Tamiya Flat Clear is even better! It is also very forgiving should you lay it on a bit too heavy.

(I wish it weren't so but Papa T has done a very good job!)

Using it tonight repainting and decaling some narrow gauge railroad boxcars.



Is that the TS-80 Flat Clear Spray?
Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 - 04:11 PM UTC
I just thought of something I don't think has been mentioned yet-- fine grain sandpaper or oooo fine steel wool. I've had some great success knocking down rough paint with fine 400 grit or higher sandpaper and fine steel wool, folding it to get into corners, then applying my flat coats. You might give that a try. Work lightly in a circular motion, it should work well, especially on the flat areas, and if necessary, you can touch up those areas with a little thinned paint through your airbrush before applying your flatcoat. You'll need to "wash" your model under some running water to remove any debris, and let it dry thoroughly before reapplying any paint or topcoat.
VR, Russ
165thspc
#0
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Kentucky, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 - 12:24 PM UTC
Patrick, I promise the Tamiya Flat Clear is even better! It is also very forgiving should you lay it on a bit too heavy.

(I wish it weren't so but Papa T has done a very good job!)

Using it tonight repainting and decaling some narrow gauge railroad boxcars.
Scarred
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Posted: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 - 12:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I will leave you guys with theses final comments:

Since you don't seem interested in reverting to a "antiquated" (spray can) solution I will only point out the following:

With a fresh Tamiya spray can you get: A properly matched paint to thinner chemical combo, A properly matched thinner dilution, An optimum factory air pressure setting AND an optimum factory spray nozzle selection.


FYI - I feel that with last night's additional follow up coats of both matte and gloss that the problem has now gone too far to be corrected with any of my suggestions.

______________________________________


On another issue:

I too thought of suggesting the use of the Pledge/Future self leveling solution as I have used that method to refinish old heavily dinged up toy cast metal steam engines where I did not want to do a full repaint and thereby lose the original factory lettering.**

But I felt you guys might poo-poo that idea as too old fashioned so I didn't mention it. The Pledge treatment may now be the only possible solution to this problem. (Myself, I would brush on the Pledge for a heavier coating because you are now trying to level out those even taller peaks and valleys of the orange peal caused by the additional paint coats. Again test all this before applying to the finished model.)


No offense intended here with any of these remarks - however my philosophy has always been - "whatever works".


**p.s. I finished off those locomotive restorations with a final coat of Tamiya Flat Clear (from a spray can.)



I love rattle cans. Already mixed, excellent coverage. I use Testor Glosscote and Dullcote for my final finish. They can be a bit difficult but remember to use thin light coats and you'll have no problems. Of course I use them after all the paints and washes have cured. At least 2-3 weeks. And since they are lacquers they are tough. Never tried tamiya flat cleat but I think I'm gonna give it a try.
nsjohn
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: July 26, 2018
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Posted: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 - 11:29 AM UTC
I'm with Brian here. Certainly worth trying the Dettol method and there are videos of it on Youtube. I went with Revell Paint Remover which certainly did the job although it required a bit of agitating with an old toothbrush. I would be wary of oven cleaner, as one of my friends ended up in the emergency room of the local hospital with burnt hands, as it can be very caustic.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 - 09:22 AM UTC
Well, I’ve been lurking from “afar” so now I’ll stick my two cents in—

1) I’m with Patrick here— manufacturers prescribed proprietary thinners are always the way to go to prevent issues like this. Never mix products, the results may be “unexpected”
2) I’m also with Michael here— self leveling with Future/Pledge/Kleer May “reset” the finish, but the more stuff you try and cover it with, the worse it will probably look.
3) If you put a lot of work into the detail and paint scheme, and are happy with the weathering, set it on the shelf and forget about it for a few weeks or a month or two, then come back and see if you even remember your paint issues. If it doesn’t look as bad later, you’ve “won”. Sometimes we’re our own worst critic, and time helps things look better...”sometimes”.
4) If you’re still not happy, and really want a good looking model you’ll be proud of, go back to “square one”, strip it all off and start again. You might try a good overnight soak in household ammonia or oven cleaner which ought to clear most of it off— followed by a gentle scrub with an old toothbrush, warm water and a few drops of dish soap. Them start over with experience and a clean canvas. Heed the words below:
“Good judgement comes with experience... while experience comes through bad judgement.” —Rest assured, we’ve all been there!🤣
VR, Russ
BootsDMS
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 837 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 - 03:00 AM UTC
Not sure if this is too late but I recently had a not dissimilar varnish problem though I was using enamels so must stress that this method of stripping back to the plastic may not be relevant. However, I soaked the model in a bowl of disinfectant overnight and that stripped all the paint off without damaging the model. The brand was "Dettol" which may, or may not be UK specific.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
165thspc
#0
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Kentucky, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 - 02:20 AM UTC
I will leave you guys with theses final comments:

Since you don't seem interested in reverting to a "antiquated" (spray can) solution I will only point out the following:

With a fresh Tamiya spray can you get: A properly matched paint to thinner chemical combo, A properly matched thinner dilution, An optimum factory air pressure setting AND an optimum factory spray nozzle selection.


FYI - I feel that with last night's additional follow up coats of both matte and gloss that the problem has now gone too far to be corrected with any of my suggestions.

______________________________________


On another issue:

I too thought of suggesting the use of the Pledge/Future self leveling solution as I have used that method to refinish old heavily dinged up toy cast metal steam engines where I did not want to do a full repaint and thereby lose the original factory lettering.**

But I felt you guys might poo-poo that idea as too old fashioned so I didn't mention it. The Pledge treatment may now be the only possible solution to this problem. (Myself, I would brush on the Pledge for a heavier coating because you are now trying to level out those even taller peaks and valleys of the orange peal caused by the additional paint coats. Again test all this before applying to the finished model.)


No offense intended here with any of these remarks - however my philosophy has always been - "whatever works".


**p.s. I finished off those locomotive restorations with a final coat of Tamiya Flat Clear (from a spray can.)
blacksad
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: September 07, 2009
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Posted: Monday, October 21, 2019 - 02:24 PM UTC
I guess that’s a lesson learned the hard way, never thin a varnish with a product from another manufacturer ! Thank you all for your insight. I originally planned to put the tank in the field during an ammo DP so dust and mud was on the list. I started to apply pigments this afternoon and I think it will look good enough. It’s just sad that after all the work that I have put through, a simple varnish coat ruined everything that was made before.
nsjohn
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: July 26, 2018
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Posted: Monday, October 21, 2019 - 01:52 PM UTC
I think that if you look at the pictures closely you will see that this is a reaction of the thinned varnish with the base coat that has caused the base coat to wrinkle slightly. I had this when I sprayed Humbrol varnish over Tamiya acrylic paint which had been thinned with X20, although mine was much worse. The bad news is that I ended up stripping the paint off and starting again.
Scarred
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Posted: Monday, October 21, 2019 - 01:32 PM UTC
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If a paint manufacturer makes a paint product and their own thinner then use their thinner! Don't go mixing multiple brands together, I've read paint thinning recipes that sound like a child mixing household chemicals found under the kitchen sink. Maybe nothing will happen maybe it will. The fact is that paint manufactures are making products that require their own products to thin them. That's the path the hobby is heading down, they want exclusivity. If you buy our products then we will make it so you have to buy our thinners and other products. In AK's catalog it states that you can thin AK's products with water though they recommend their thinner. Of course they do. What I didn't read was thin with Tamiya, Mig, Vallejo or other thinners. Those thinners my not be the same, in fact I'd bet they aren't and have different compounds that make them work ONLY with their paints.

Back in the good old days of modeling you could get some enamel or lacquer and go to the hardware store and get any old can of appropriate thinner and no problems. I started seeing issues with this when testors started marketing their own thinner. Then tamiya came out with their paints that worked best with their thinners and so on and so on ad nauseam.

99% of the time you might have no problems then BAM my paint is effed up and all I did was mix two different manufacturers products because it worked before and everyone is doing it.
Vicious
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Posted: Monday, October 21, 2019 - 01:09 PM UTC
and add some retarder medium?...
Lakota
#123
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Posted: Monday, October 21, 2019 - 12:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Pledge floor polish or used to be Future is self leveling and dries clear. Never tried to fix orange peel with Future polish, but might give you a high gloss, smooth restart. Would need another layer of flat finish after the Future finish is completely dry. Just a thought...


I've heard the same but have never had to try it.
Take care,
Don "Lakota"
amoz02t
#192
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Posted: Monday, October 21, 2019 - 11:38 AM UTC
Pledge floor polish or used to be Future is self leveling and dries clear. Never tried to fix orange peel with Future polish, but might give you a high gloss, smooth restart. Would need another layer of flat finish after the Future finish is completely dry. Just a thought...