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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Another Sherman Identification ?
gmat5037
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Posted: Friday, October 11, 2019 - 09:27 PM UTC
Looking at the Japanese American Historical site Densho Digital Repository.
i found this M4 sherman with a mixed Asian and American crew. I don't think that it's the Chinese American tank unit in Burma as the pine trees in the background look more CONUS or perhaps Europe. The white stripe on the turret and the canvas cover on the tank in the background would indicate CONUS or a non combat area. Can anyone identify?

ddr-densho-92-21 Soldiers on a tank | Densho Digital Repository

The site has more AJAs with armored vehicles and trucks and jeeps.
Just after the war in Italy, the 442ns less 552nd FAB in Germany became a calvary/constabulary with M8 armored cars and M3 halftracks.

ddr-densho-201-376 "Riot car" | Densho Digital Repository
M8 PBS -442-I * 100 C 7 PBS = "Peninsular Base Section"
M3 halftrack White bumper guard (PBS - 442 I ) * 100 C ?
ddr-densho-201-524 Two soldiers standing near a truck | Densho Digital Repository

442nd Regimental Combat Team
http://ddr.densho.org/browse/topics/89/

Grant
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Friday, October 11, 2019 - 09:32 PM UTC

https://ddr.densho.org/media/ddr-densho-92/ddr-densho-92-21-master-d340454dd3-a.jpg


If the tank and tankers belonged to the 442nd ...

"The 100th Infantry Battalion began as part of the Hawaii National Guard. On June 5, 1942, 1,432 men left Hawaii for training at Camp McCoy, Wisconsin, and later at Camp Shelby, Mississippi. The 100th shipped out to North Africa on August 23, 1943, and saw heavy action in Italy. Because of its heavy casualties and many honors, the 100th became known as the "Purple Heart Battalion." The 442nd Regimental Combat Team was initially formed in 1943 from Japanese American volunteers from Hawaii and the mainland. Perhaps not surprisingly, only about 1,250 Japanese Americans volunteered from the concentration camps. In Hawaii, where there was no mass removal, almost 10,000 volunteered. The 442nd arrived in Italy in June 1944 where the battle-tested 100th Infantry Battalion became its 1st Battalion. In seven major campaigns, the 442nd became the most decorated unit for its size and length of service; the unit suffered 9,476 casualties, more than 300 percent of its original strength. "
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, October 11, 2019 - 10:36 PM UTC
Same tank (I guess so ) ?



H.P.
gmat5037
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Posted: Friday, October 11, 2019 - 10:43 PM UTC
Robin,
Thank you for the reply. No. I don't think that it has any connection with the 100th Bn or 442nd RCT. The men are tankers, not infantry.

Grant

Also, how did you get to know Al Supercyzinski? I met him when he was stationed in Hawaii in the 70s and later met him again when we were both stationed in Japan. I was AF. A great guy with, at that time, a sizeable stash of kits. I was saddened to hear that he had passed away quite a few years ago. I appreciate that you still have a quote in his memory.

Thank you Grant
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Saturday, October 12, 2019 - 12:47 AM UTC
I never met him personally, we just frequented the same discussion forum, rec.models.scale, and he helped me out with answers and some support. Nice guy!
I liked his signature by-line so I kept it
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Saturday, October 12, 2019 - 01:25 AM UTC



This picture is from stateside training because the tank has the white band around the turret.

KL
TopSmith
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Posted: Saturday, October 12, 2019 - 04:04 AM UTC
They are holding M3 sub machine guns and from a previous thread Steven said they were not issued until late 44.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, October 12, 2019 - 04:41 AM UTC
Definitely post '44, probably post '45 CONUS. Again, the M3 wasn't issued until mid '44 at the earliest. The 442 RCT was active in Italy and Southern France, and was an Infantry Regimental Combat Team--not an armored unit. These guys being in a "mixed crew" implies they are somewhere in CONUS during post WWII training.
VR, Russ
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, October 12, 2019 - 06:00 AM UTC
This tank also has the later towing shackles that didn't appear on most vehicles until post-WWII, as mentioned below by Adam Marot. So, I'd say maybe it's a NG tank at a training area someplace? Also, is it an M4A2? I can't quite tell from from the photo, but something about the slope of the rear deck looks off to me.
VR, Russ

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=280629

KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Saturday, October 12, 2019 - 07:05 AM UTC
If the two pictures are the same tank it is an M4A3.

KL
gmat5037
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Posted: Saturday, October 12, 2019 - 08:44 AM UTC
Thank you everyone for the responses. Wonder what the bumper code might be.

Grant
Bravo1102
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Posted: Sunday, October 13, 2019 - 12:50 AM UTC
Surprised no one has pointed out the scrub pine forest, light colored mud and they're wearing cold weather gear. That rules out Hawaii. There was an armor unit in the Hawaiian NG.

They're someplace chilly with wet mud/clay.

Mixed crew I'd say West Coast if NG. By 1946 most NG units had been organized.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Sunday, October 13, 2019 - 04:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Surprised no one has pointed out the scrub pine forest, light colored mud and they're wearing cold weather gear. That rules out Hawaii. There was an armor unit in the Hawaiian NG.

They're someplace chilly with wet mud/clay.

Mixed crew I'd say West Coast if NG. By 1946 most NG units had been organized.



I was thinking Camp Roberts CA, but there are no mountains in the background. It really could be anywhere though.
VR, Russ
Frenchy
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Posted: Sunday, October 13, 2019 - 06:29 AM UTC
It's probably too much far-fetched, but these pics come from an album belonging to George Yoshida, who attended the Military Intelligence Service Language School in Fort Snelling, Minnesota. Maybe the pictured tanks belong to a unit deployed in the area ?

http://encyclopedia.densho.org/George_Yoshida/

H.P.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Sunday, October 13, 2019 - 06:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

It's probably too much far-fetched, but these pics come from an album belonging to George Yoshida, who attended the Military Intelligence Service Language School in Fort Snelling, Minnesota. Maybe the pictured tanks belong to a unit deployed in the area ?

http://encyclopedia.densho.org/George_Yoshida/

H.P.



Frenchy,
I don't think that's far-fetched at all. Soldiers love to pose with military equipment and weapons all the time. The empty magazines of the M3s and all the smiles definitely show these are posed photos, perhaps from some "familiarization" training opportunity to show the folks back home?
VR, Russ
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Sunday, October 13, 2019 - 07:08 AM UTC
"When the United States entered World War II in December 1941, Fort Snelling became the induction point for more than 300,000 men and women who joined the armed forces. At its height in 1942, the Reception Center was capable of processing approximately 800 recruits each day. Recruits were sworn into the US military, received medical examinations and vaccinations, were classified and assigned to a unit, and were issued basic equipment. Most recruits stayed at Fort Snelling for only a short time before they were transferred to other military posts to begin their basic training.

Linking the lower and upper posts with the Reception Center was an electric streetcar called the "Fort Snelling Dummy." In their off time soldiers at the fort enjoyed dances and socials, swimming pools and golfing, as well as a movie theater and post libraries run by the Red Cross.

In addition to inducting recruits, specialized units were organized and trained at the fort. Military Police were trained at the fort as well as the 99th Infantry Battalion Seperate (eventually part of the 474th Infantry Regiment), made up of Norwegian-speaking soldiers who trained to fight on skis and snowshoes. Military Railway Service soldiers trained with local civilian railroad companies in the operation of the military's railroads, going on to provide valuable logistics service in North Africa and Europe.

After 1944 the fort was the location of the Military Intelligence Service Language School, where Nisei (second-generation) Japanese Americans learned Japanese, Korean, and Chinese language and culture in preparation for overseas service as interpreters, interrogators, and intelligence workers. These soldiers played an important role after the end of the war during the occupation of Japan.

When World War II ended in 1945, more than 7,800 Minnesotans had lost their lives while serving in the armed forces. Fort Snelling was officially decommissioned as an active military post in 1946. The US military still maintains a presence on the site, with some buildings and properties being used by reservists from the US Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force."
Kevlar06
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Posted: Sunday, October 13, 2019 - 09:53 AM UTC
Well, given the timeline and narrative Robin presented, Ft. Snelling might be a long shot. I was thinking about Camp Roberts CA, but you know, it could also be Fort Lewis WA, which had a large training Division HQ for many years, both during and post-WWII -- the 104th Training Division. By the way-- looking at an enlargement of the photo, did anyone notice the out of place roadwheel at the left rear of the tank, just before the idler? It looks like the suspension arm is missing that roadwheel too. That looks like it wouldn't be fun to fix in the mud-- maybe that's why they're smiling it up!
VR, Russ