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Яusso-Soviэt Forum
Russian or Soviet vehicles/armor modeling forum.
best tamiya paint for Soviet green?
Klaus-Adler
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MODELGEEK
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Scotland, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, October 08, 2019 - 09:18 PM UTC
Hi all,

i'm looking to paint my isu 152k shortly and i was wondering what is the best tamiya green colour to paint it with, i only have tamiya acrylic paints so there is no point suggesting another brand and i do i have a rather ahem "extensive" collection of tamiya paints. I don't mind if i have to do some mixing as this will probably need to happen any way with the painting that i plan to do on the kit.

all help welcomed.
pgb3476
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Posted: Tuesday, October 08, 2019 - 11:01 PM UTC
Field grey, which is a green.
Tank1812
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Posted: Tuesday, October 08, 2019 - 11:55 PM UTC
According to 4BO it is FS34257
http://www.4bogreen.com/colors

XF-58 is a start
https://uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=365&t=14967&sid=5933879a2b7b96a89b17794bd129626c&start=90

Addendum XF-65 is a nicer look to me.
http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/48/t34pj48_1.html
americanpanzer
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Posted: Wednesday, October 09, 2019 - 02:54 AM UTC
might seem strange but I've used their XF26 Deep Green; it seems a little too green but some weathering and filtering helps subdue it; I've been happy with it anyway
Tank1812
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Posted: Wednesday, October 09, 2019 - 03:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

might seem strange but I've used their XF26 Deep Green; it seems a little too green but some weathering and filtering helps subdue it; I've been happy with it anyway



Interesting. As I have few different kit so one of each would give nice variation.
MLD
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Posted: Wednesday, October 09, 2019 - 03:03 AM UTC
It's odd, but starting with Tamiya NATO green and adding weathering effects from there works well for me.
Starting with a lighter greener tone and adding effects is easier for me than starting with a dark tone and then trying to lighten the base color.
I'm a filter, wash, chipping, dust, pigments kind of finisher though.

As a straight out of the bottle, no weathering match, I don't know.
griffontech
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Posted: Wednesday, October 09, 2019 - 05:29 AM UTC
I've been googling for a specific image for two days but can't find it.

It was of a field filled with mothballed BMP's or BTR's. Every single one of them was a slightly different green color. OD, to NATO green. Ones that were more yellow, brown or blackish in shade. I wouldn't get too hung up on an exact shade of green unless you are trying to duplicate a specific vehicle.
This is especially true on older armor. I know more modern series vehicles will have tighter quality control, but even then they can vary slightly depending on weathering, age of vehicle, time of year, etc...
Tank1812
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Posted: Wednesday, October 09, 2019 - 05:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I've been googling for a specific image for two days but can't find it.

It was of a field filled with mothballed BMP's or BTR's. Every single one of them was a slightly different green color. OD, to NATO green. Ones that were more yellow, brown or blackish in shade. I wouldn't get too hung up on an exact shade of green unless you are trying to duplicate a specific vehicle.
This is especially true on older armor. I know more modern series vehicles will have tighter quality control, but even then they can vary slightly depending on weathering, age of vehicle, time of year, etc...



There is a few similar images floating around....I am sure this one will work.
johhar
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Posted: Wednesday, October 09, 2019 - 07:20 AM UTC
MiniArt allows you to download instructions for their kits and in them they have paint charts which include Tamiya. I don't know if they make the subject you are making, but they do make SU-122s.
griffontech
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Posted: Wednesday, October 09, 2019 - 07:21 AM UTC
Thatís the exact photo I was talking about!
Thought I had it saved somewhere.

Nice find
MLD
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Posted: Wednesday, October 09, 2019 - 12:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text





In Russia, correct shade of 4BO chooses YOU...
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Wednesday, October 09, 2019 - 12:21 PM UTC

Quoted Text

It was of a field filled with mothballed BMP's or BTR's. Every single one of them was a slightly different green color. OD, to NATO green. Ones that were more yellow, brown or blackish in shade. I wouldn't get too hung up on an exact shade of green unless you are trying to duplicate a specific vehicle.

This is especially true on older armor. I know more modern series vehicles will have tighter quality control, but even then they can vary slightly depending on weathering, age of vehicle, time of year, etc...



This should not be taken to mean any old color will work for any Soviet vehicle, at any time, under any conditions (which many have done in the past and justified with photos like these). Like US olive drab, there was a definite starting point and the deviations, wide as they may be, spread out from that. If you want to have varied color you should attempt the same process if you want to keep things reasonable. Given that the OP took the effort to ask in the first place I have to assume he would like to find that starting point because you don't need to ask anyone if you are just going to pick a color.

I have been using the newer Tamiya XF-81 Dark Green. To lighten it use Tamiya XF-4 Yellow Green.

KL
MassimoTessitori
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Posted: Sunday, October 13, 2019 - 12:20 AM UTC
Hi,
the photo is very interesting, but keep in mind that the most part of these vehicles have been not repainted in the last ten years at least. A functioning vehicle can't be so weathered.
Certainly the photo allows to recognize that there are many starting shades, including a dark green that has nothing to do with 4BO.
griffontech
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Posted: Sunday, October 13, 2019 - 01:01 AM UTC
Kurt and Massimo,

Iím not meaning to be and a$#, and only keep this going for meaningful discussion.

I agree with your statements, however, I ASSUMED ( LOL ) that the OP was asking for an in-service, not brand new vehicle. The ISU was in soviet use for 27 years. Massimo, you stated that those vehicles in the field had not been painted for 10 years. How often do you think the soviets repainted their 152ís?

Iím not sure where all the vehicles in the photo originally came from (what factory or district) , but it is hard to imagine (although very plausible) that they weathered to such a distinct difference while sitting side by side in this field. They either started from a different OD base coat, or they met a wide range of in service environments or repainting.

The following link is to a Canadian LSVW (a light logistic vehicle) that went out of service a few years ago. It is in service in this pic. https://www.flickr.com/photos/collingwoodbarry/7857159660
It has at least 4 distinct variations of green. If you go to any Canadian tank or vehicle park, you will notice many of the slightly older vehicles are different shades.
If the OP wants to paint a brand new vehicle, then sure, research the colour like crazy.
If he wants a slightly different and unique vehicle than that on the shelf, then pick a decent green and have fun.
panzerbob01
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Posted: Sunday, October 13, 2019 - 12:46 PM UTC
Quote[ Iím not sure where all the vehicles in the photo originally came from (what factory or district) , but it is hard to imagine (although very plausible) that they weathered to such a distinct difference while sitting side by side in this field. They either started from a different OD base coat, or they met a wide range of in service environments or repainting.
....
If the OP wants to paint a brand new vehicle, then sure, research the colour like crazy.
If he wants a slightly different and unique vehicle than that on the shelf, then pick a decent green and have fun. ]

You hit it (pretty much) right, Dave, though I would actually be less assertive even when it comes to modeling a "factory new" vehicle.

Yes, there ARE official color standards for military equipment and vehicle painting - even likely for the fabled Russian BO4 green.... Somewhere, in some time.

This thread and some of its comments are, speaking bluntly, more a recap of where "correct paint color for..." threads have repeatedly gone then anything else.

It would be wonderful if any military in the past couple of centuries actually did always conform to its official color standards. But, as I'm sure any veteran from any military can attest, this frankly does not happen. Paint batches differ in original color, in aging under any specific conditions, and certainly when actually applied and aged in the vehicle's specific circumstances.

If only I could unearth the many color slides I have of my unit vehicles back in W. Germany in the 1970's... I have numerous photos of US APC, 151-mutts, trucks, tanks, etc. in unit motor-pools. It was always fascinating to see (and very well captured in my slides...) that vehicles of a type generally had almost identical camo patterns in the "same" colors (very standardized schemes, often applied quite "religiously" by personnel under the un-erring eye of the motor-pool chieftains)- yet appeared so different in color from each other! Now, those slides have color-shifted over the past 40+ years... they do. But, while I wouldn't hold one up for a color reference to a build today, I would certainly rely on them to have recorded that vehicles in a group differed in their coloration at that time. And that, friends, is my point. Color variation is a way of life.

No matter how much "research" you do, you will not actually find exactly the "right" color that any real vehicle drawn at random from a pool of like vehicles was painted in. They likely differed from day one out the factory door (perhaps only very little at that point...) but entered each into its own history and circumstances.

You can certainly find an "official" reference standard and likely some paint patch image on the 'net labeled as being "right and official" (albeit likely seen on your computer monitor - where all "truth" bets regarding color are, at the least, "off"...) and likely one or many paints sold by one or another company labeled as being the "right color". And doubtless there will be "experten" who will tell you that paint x or mix y is the "right" color as used in year t by plant p or unit u. As long as you aren't actually staking big money, let alone your LIFE, on that discovery, you are OK.

So yes, look around at pics, and YES, ask other modelers what they use. And YES, pick a green that seems OK by whatever criteria you are happy with, and go paint that build and...

As Dave said: Have Fun!

Bob
babaoriley
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Posted: Sunday, October 13, 2019 - 05:53 PM UTC
What a great photo, the sort of thing to annoy the guy who insists there is one official color and anyone not using it is doing it wrong.

Different factories, different batches of paint, different hours of time out in the weather, different regions of a very large country with varying amounts of sun etc., even different units having different maintenance standards--the results are as we see. It makes it safe to say there is no "wrong" on this issue unless you're talking about a Red Square parade unit.
panzerbob01
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Posted: Monday, October 14, 2019 - 03:43 AM UTC
Probably even the "Red Square Parade" leaves room for choice - there is, I'm sure, some genuine "wrong" range of choices for each parade over the years, but finding the actual "right" choice for most or maybe all of those parades still remains a Quixotic task, I think!

IF I were modeling to depict a nice, clean "parade" vehicle... It is at that moment that I would look up the various colors issued by paint companies as being the "correct" Russian armor green for the desired period, and choose from among those offerings as an "I'll go right from the bottle on this one" based on whatever "official color-match" info I have available. It is highly unlikely that I would get a color that all, or even most, of the many "experts" would agree is actually "correct", but it's likely that I will at least be fairly close for some!

I certainly wouldn't begin to argue with any other viewer of my result about my chosen color actually being the "RIGHT" one, or "it's pistols at dawn, Pal!".

Cheers! Bob
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Monday, October 14, 2019 - 12:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I agree with your statements, however, I ASSUMED ( LOL ) that the OP was asking for an in-service, not brand new vehicle.



As did I. My point was that if you want to show a weathered, off shade, you are better off starting at something near the official color and tinting or weathering your model from there rather than picking any old green and saying "No one can tell me I'm wrong!"

For example, if you were trying to get this:



wouldn't it be better to start from the nominal color



than this?


KL
panzerbob01
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Posted: Monday, October 14, 2019 - 04:32 PM UTC
Kurt:

If you were trying to "get (near) to" .857, why would you want to start from .967 and work your way through various tinting and shading passes?

I'm not saying in any way that you are at all wrong in suggesting that one might want to start from something like the presumed "original" color and weather that - after all, that is what really happens in the 1:1 world. It's just that there is no really good route from that notion to approach that photo's diversity.

But... Your presupposition in your color example is that you have actually already picked out what you want your final color to be - and that is NOT the original "official" color. It is some "I like this green". So why start from some other color deemed the "official" one and try to modify that to get to where you want your end color to be? Why not just start from something pretty much already there?

Now... IF instead what you want to do is actually just weather in whatever degree and fashion you deem "good" some putative "original" color... OK! But this presupposes that what you really want is to see a weathered / faded / dirty version of the chosen "original" - and that you do NOT in fact have some actual "I think I want it to look something like... .857, when I'm done." in mind when you start that weathering.

When we look at that fab photo showing many different shades and tints... It's 1) pretty hard to actually accept that they all really started out being the same "original" color (and so getting to some of those color destinations would be nothing short of a trial by paint, if one did assume that all of those beasties had indeed started out the "same"), and 2) they present quite a pallet of possible "real" colors that a modeler could "safely" work from for his / her specific build.

Albeit, I am absolutely sure that one would want to post a nice copy of that photo beside one's build were one to choose some of those colors as the base for their build!

Bob