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165thspc
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Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,165 posts
Armorama: 8,405 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 - 02:44 PM UTC
p.s. I too would vote for a "Like" button (and maybe even a "thumps down" button as well) to quickly acknowledge and support or nix a particular thread or a post within a thread.
Johnnych01
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: June 29, 2019
KitMaker: 345 posts
Armorama: 302 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 - 06:29 PM UTC
Hi all, I have read through this and thought i would chip in "from the person on the side lines aspect" always looking in. I have been following this site (Kitmaker) for years now ( I was only following armorama but I then couldnt log onto it for some weird reason) and have been in awe from the very start about the levels of knowledge and levels of skill by so many of the members and staffers. I like others mostly read through and enjoy what I see being built or discussed. Its only recently I have started to make the occasional comment and these have been genuine comments of amazement of how skilled certain modellers are in how they are building a particular model or, if I read a thread and then luckily a few times I was able to give some advise on a particular subject. ( Im still serving now and I was crewed on Chieftain and Challenger 1's in W Germany and CVRT in the UK)

I think some people (novices maybe ??) who read and follow from the side lines could possible feel a little bit out of their depth and possibly worried about making comments when they follow people with huge skill levels.

On a side note, I made the bold decision ( I class myself as a newbee in these forums ) to pose a question and open a forum on a possible build campaign .... if any staffers or high input members would care to look it over and give any advice, I would really appreciate any thoughts or guidance on it .. the forum is "build campaign idea" .... I know its not the most catchy title lol ....

I will be continuing to read, absord and enjoy all the forums and builds I can ..... John
165thspc
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Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,165 posts
Armorama: 8,405 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 - 08:24 PM UTC
Something perhaps more often said in the States John but thank you for your service and also for your participation here.

Regards
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,335 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 - 01:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I am also aware that some posts take threads in strange directions and some write replies in an aggressive or derogatory manner. It is my belief that in many cases that the lack of face to face comments means that at times we can all write in a confrontational manner even if that is not the intent. Also some at times deliberately bait others and it is a choice in many cases if you play or not; I would suggest that like me when a post gets your back up walk away and check it later as you can often be more constructive or just ignore the comment.



As mentioned some time ago, this part of your statement is why I posted a review only one time, and will be only the one time. I don't care to be excoriated to a degree of offensiveness that exceeds normal boundaries of fair criticism. There a couple of well known individuals on this site that are infamously members of that sort. While I eagerly look at this site for tips and accurate kit details that (faithfully, along with fair representation) dictates that a kit is worth purchasing, that is as far as it goes for me.



Hi, John!

It's really too bad that you feel this way about posting another review because there seems to be an ever-present miasma of hostility floating around this site. I can empathize with your feelings quite readily. I for one, would love to see you do another build-review, if you were ever so inclined.

Readers, please note:

Lately, I've been using more emojis when I mean to make a comment "tongue-in-cheek". I HOPE that readers won't take my commentary so seriously, except when I mean to be informative or helpful...
justsendit
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 2,953 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 - 02:31 AM UTC
I’m gonna’ go comment on something else now. 😁
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,335 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 - 02:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I’m gonna’ go comment on something else now. 😁



Thanks for that, Mike!!!
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
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Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 - 02:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

p.s. I too would vote for a "Like" button (and maybe even a "thumps down" button as well) to quickly acknowledge and support or nix a particular thread or a post within a thread.



I'd vote for that type of a "thumbs-up" or "thumbs-down" feature too, although I would still enjoy the written feedback that readers have been sending in for reviews, "builds", and "How To" articles.

What I wouldn't like is a "thumbs-down" feature for contributors' "builds". NO person should be derided or castigated if they make a mistake, or if the paint-job doesn't suit certain peoples' tastes...
alanmac
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United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,018 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 - 11:06 AM UTC
I've been a member since 2007 and in that time I've seen, as we all have, a huge change in how people interact with the internet, available content and what is described as Social Media, which didn't really exist mainstream until a few years ago.

Now people have a variety of formats on which to view and interact with things that take their interest so its not surprising that the potential audience for such sites as Armorama would be reduced by the greater choice available.

Having said that, as others have commented already, summertime always sees a drop off in interest, content and comment so it should come as no surprise that this year is no exception.

What I have noticed is that many of the knowledgeable members of the site, along with talented modellers and contributors that I would see regularly here a few years ago no longer appear. Some small number do still remain, and others who have left still appear on other sites.

One of the reasons I think many of the knowledgeable members stopped posting and moved on is they felt their contributions, comments, which at times I'll admit could develop into some robust exchanges of views, was seen as "rivet counting" and that "it's your model, build it how you want" mentality started to make them feel any serious contribution was pointless and their valuable knowledge and time spent commenting was unappreciated.

Nothing wrong with how seriously you take this hobby or that you shouldn't impose your level of devotion onto others but I always thought that by the very fact of joining Armorama you wanted to step up from just building a kit from the box and what the manufacturer told you what it depicted to knowing more about the subject, greater knowledge and improving your modelling capabilities. If you were not interested in accuracy why join a site like Armorama.

I'm always amazed at how sensitive and thin skinned some people are about comments made here. How easily they take offence. Our interests by coming to this site are about some of the most brutal, harmful and destructive weapons ever created by man, capable of terrible harm, pain, bloodshed and loss of life, yet it would seem those same people are upset and offended beyond belief by some small comment, a few words on a page, in a thread. I'm not talking about name calling but just maybe what they see in their opinion as less than "polite conversation or interaction"

Whilst I greatly appreciate the contribution that staff members put in to running this site, unpaid and devoting much of their valuable spare time to the site, they are not innocent of "stoking the fire" with their own comments, indeed instigating it on some occasions.

I've experienced first hand how their intervention in threads has been an abuse of their position, guilty of the same thing as what they accuse members of. But then again they are just human like the rest of us, subject to the same stresses, and what life throws at them so it's not something that troubles me greatly but has in turn reduced my respect and opinion of them.

Back a few years ago I had several run ins with staff member Jim Rae who I know was of the opinion I disliked him, which wasn't true, I just didn't believe as he was a staff member he shouldn't be challenged on his behaviour or opinions. I'm sure he wanted me banned at some stage for such exchanges.

I work under the rule that I would never say anything in a post I wouldn't say to someones face and if we ever happen to bump into each other in Salisbury Model Shop I'll happily confirm that Darren

I think as the membership has changed, so has the general feeling within the site. At one time it was, along with Missing Lynx, my go to site for expert historical knowledge, very talented modellers wanting to share techniques and their experience, but sadly not any more.

I don't wish to offend those who do still contribute with their expert knowledge and experience etc. it's just there are very few of them now compared to a few years ago.

Even reviews of kits many times do not have a reviewer knowledgeable of the subject they are reviewing, and where as a few years ago many posts would follow regarding the accuracy of said kit, which as I've said before could become quite heated, that doesn't seem to happen now.

I get the feeling such remarks are frowned upon, and seen as some form of incitement to starting an argument, instead just a series of "that looks nice", "must add this to my list" is what works for the site these days.

The only time it does get animated is when we get posts bemoaning this release and instead they should have released xyz variant and folks then reply in getting understandably fed up of seeing such pointless remarks.

Having said that I don't think Armorama should change its basic format and try to be more like other forms of social media like facebook etc. I think there is a natural drop off in activity/membership as people try new methods of communication but then things will level out. Some will stick with the "new" way,whilst others will decide they prefer sites, structured like Armorama and come back.

For my part I don't like what seems to me the confusing presentation and format of Facebook, the push of information, links etc that interject on the pages I'm viewing but that's how they make their money.

Armorama has a revenue stream to pay for its upkeep but whilst it does feature on the site it isn't as obtrusive as other sites like facebook. It also seems to have for me anyway, a more coherent format, a thread you can find with helpful information or follow reading all remarks easily.

Nothing stands still and like television these days, folks have a greater choice of where to spend their time. They are going to naturally gravitate to the one they feel suits their outlook and best suits their needs. Any web site such as Armorama is going to reflect the sum of its membership.

165thspc
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Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,165 posts
Armorama: 8,405 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 - 06:29 PM UTC
As an observer and contributor to this site I get a bit frustrated when a statement or question is posted in the form of a new thread that clearly is one that has been hashed over repeatedly in the past.

While I wish to accommodate all discussions and fresh viewpoints perhaps a statement should be added to the 'start a new thread" page that suggests/encourages a topic search be made on the subject in question before someone starts a new thread?

Not trying to squash new ideas, also too I maybe just tilting at windmills. I too am guilty of many of the sins listed throughout.
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
KitMaker: 1,151 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 - 11:26 PM UTC
I reply to post that interest me.
Either new kit announcements, reviews or questions by members.

I'll even add info to older reviews if the subject interests me enough.

I do find it annoying if people start threads that are poorly stated/ confusing, (So you first have to find out what the writer means, before you can answer.) or start ew threads whch are clearly continuations of earlier posts. (Which is just confusing.)

I found the answer to my auto login post dissapointing. Apparently no one could tell me how to do this/ if this problem was related to the site, etc.

The atmosphere is usualy good and friendly.
CMOT
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
ARMORAMA
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,912 posts
Armorama: 8,555 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 - 11:50 PM UTC
It is my understanding that if you log in to the network and have your computer set up to retain the login data then you should be automatically logged in when you visit. I would however never have a PC set up like this as it makes a hackers job easier. Just sign in once each visit and save your login details.
165thspc
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Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,165 posts
Armorama: 8,405 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2019 - 12:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text


I do find it annoying if people start threads that are poorly stated/ confusing, (So you first have to find out what the writer means, before you can answer.) or start new threads which are clearly continuations of earlier posts. (Which is just confusing.)
. . . . . . . . . . . . The atmosphere is usualy good and friendly.



YES, Yes, yes. AMEN TO THAT !*!*!*!*!*!*!*!

Here's to sensible, explanatory thread titles and even a photo at the start of the thread that let's everyone know immediately what you are talking about.


And yes, the atmosphere is almost always friendly and inviting!



__________________________________

As to log ins: I seem to remain logged in, secession to session without doing anything special but then I almost never turn my computer off.
SpeedyJ
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Bangkok, Thailand / ไทย
Joined: September 17, 2013
KitMaker: 1,439 posts
Armorama: 1,053 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2019 - 03:23 AM UTC
Been thinking how to react, discussed the matter with my alter ego, and he says you should give it a go.
For an average person who wants to join a network where all his questions, example giving hero modelers participate in colorful discussions, presenting knowledge of all kind of subjects, talk about why Chinese kits we all love become so pricy, reaching numbers of reactions that go sky high, I simply can conclude, that the reason why I decided to become member isn't present any more.
I did a quick review on 200 subjected post/lines which are 8 pages, we call 'forums', out of 200 lines, having a specific label of what is happing, 17 lines say:hey I'm building something. This goes for my interest, WWII Axis...
Rest is: I have a question, I have a story, including a question, I heard something, who can confirm story.
News from manufacturers, etc. etc.
This was on Thursday, don't think a lot has changed.

I think that building a model should be in the building a model section.
I think a question should be in the section where people give you an answer.

News should be a overhead. That might affect the site, as your sponsor want his space, ok it's commercial news, so: Manufactures new released, or to be released should have a designated forum too.

When you want to organize that, just take a look at: Britmodeller when it comes to actually building. For research Missinglynx... etc.

I can understand that people who want to participate have a load of questions and are backed against the wall(where to go, who can I ask something). Personally that was a big hurdle for me too, you feel stupid to some extent (all those experts) The first year I discovered this site I really drowned in questions and information I wanted to match.

I really think that this site should consider to simplify access to where you really want to go.

1. Interest group ( All you want as sub groups)
2. Building models related to that group (including scale differentiations)
3. I want more information about my subject (research related)
4. I'm finished and I want to present it (Congratulations & Critique related)

All subject like: 'What is the best side cutter" or even 'semi political discussions' about trading with Chinese sellers on Ebay should not interfere a forum that was set up to share our hobby, sharing pictures, thoughts, compliments, critique, tips & tricks and a lot of enthusiasm.

I'm not the person to say the site is not ok, it simply became too big. Like trees can hide the forest you want to see.
I enjoy this site for almost 7 years now, so when you want the forest to grow, some trees need to be cut, size matters in this case.
To keep it alive it should be no shame to learn from other sites.

Kind regards,

Robert Jan
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,335 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2019 - 03:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


I do find it annoying if people start threads that are poorly stated/ confusing, (So you first have to find out what the writer means, before you can answer.) or start new threads which are clearly continuations of earlier posts. (Which is just confusing.)
. . . . . . . . . . . . The atmosphere is usualy good and friendly.



YES, Yes, yes. AMEN TO THAT !*!*!*!*!*!*!*!

Here's to sensible, explanatory thread titles and even a photo at the start of the thread that let's everyone know immediately what you are talking about.


And yes, the atmosphere is almost always friendly and inviting!



__________________________________

As to log ins: I seem to remain logged in, secession to session without doing anything special but then I almost never turn my computer off.



I try to start out by conversing in a "friendly manner", in keeping with the "friendly atmosphere" here on ARMORAMA, but somehow, if I use my "caps", or if I should say or mention something that just doesn't quite "sit right" with some of the people around here, I am immediately bastinadoed, verbally...

bastinado: to be beaten to a pulp with a club or a stick

Have fun with that... (Do I need to "punctuate" that with an "emoji"?)

VR- Dennis
SpeedyJ
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Bangkok, Thailand / ไทย
Joined: September 17, 2013
KitMaker: 1,439 posts
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Posted: Friday, July 26, 2019 - 03:59 AM UTC
Bastinado expresses it exactly.
No what so ever Japanese DotDotDot expression puppets needed.

Kind regards,

Robert Jan


barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,753 posts
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Posted: Saturday, July 27, 2019 - 11:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I work under the rule that I would never say anything in a post I wouldn't say to someones face and if we ever happen to bump into each other in Salisbury Model Shop I'll happily confirm that Darren



Hang on - Salisbury still has a bricks&mortar model shop? Living in the plastic desert of east London I am sooooooooo jealous! But I agree wholeheartedly about the ethos of not letting the anonymity of the internet erode our sense of common decency. (I'd "thumbs-up" it if I could...)

As for when to comment, I'm amused to see this thread is already three pages long! Take that, FaceAche.
SpeedyJ
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Posted: Saturday, July 27, 2019 - 11:22 PM UTC
"As for when to comment, I'm amused to see this thread is already three pages long! Take that, FaceAche. " [/quote]

Not a Chinese crime mentioned so far, so this will end soon.
alanmac
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United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,018 posts
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Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 12:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Hang on - Salisbury still has a bricks&mortar model shop? Living in the plastic desert of east London I am sooooooooo jealous!



Yes, and run by a model making owner to. If you are around Salisbury visiting do pop into his shop. Directions and opening times on his web site. Usually has a display in his window of either a theme or of something he built lately.

He's also an active member of Salisbury IPMS, giving it support and help. A true gent is our Declan.



https://www.salisburymodelcentre.co.uk/
CMOT
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
ARMORAMA
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 12:53 AM UTC
It is not that long ago we had two Bricks and mortar model shops in Salisbury, but unfortunately the owner of one died.
nsjohn
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: July 26, 2018
KitMaker: 255 posts
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Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 04:01 AM UTC
A model shop and Russian agents as well! Its like a step back in time to the 1960's.
CMOT
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
ARMORAMA
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 14, 2006
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Armorama: 8,555 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 04:59 AM UTC
They were not spies they just wanted to see the Cathedral but were put off by the slush.
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
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Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 05:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Hang on - Salisbury still has a bricks&mortar model shop? Living in the plastic desert of east London I am sooooooooo jealous!



Yes, and run by a model making owner to. If you are around Salisbury visiting do pop into his shop. Directions and opening times on his web site. Usually has a display in his window of either a theme or of something he built lately.

He's also an active member of Salisbury IPMS, giving it support and help. A true gent is our Declan.



https://www.salisburymodelcentre.co.uk/



Wow! That's great! I've always wanted to visit the UK and do an auto tour of the countrysides, WWII ex-RAF and USAAF Bases, Air and Armor Museums and the like. Other historic sites would interest me to no end. Maybe even meeting some of you fellows. I'm not some ogre, just because I use a lot of "caps", you know...

Unfortunately my health and resultant financial situation dictate otherwise...

PS- Alan, Thanks Much for the link to Salisbury Model Center- I'll be perusing their site this afternoon. Judging from their ad, I'm hoping that they'll ship overseas..?
nsjohn
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: July 26, 2018
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Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 06:52 AM UTC
Thats what I meant. Russian ecclesiastical agents.
M4A1Sherman
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Joined: May 02, 2013
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Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 07:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thats what I meant. Russian ecclesiastical agents.



Oh, dear...
alanmac
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United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 07:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text



PS- Alan, Thanks Much for the link to Salisbury Model Center- I'll be perusing their site this afternoon. Judging from their ad, I'm hoping that they'll ship overseas..?



No I'm sorry he doesn't do any selling on the internet. He decided, for better or worse, not to go that route.

Yes, kind of lucky in having a few model shops in this area still, added to which only about 40 minutes drive from Bovington Tank Museum as well, so I do regard myself as being lucky in that respect..
https://www.tankmuseum.org/home

Somebody once said, and I think it was an American comedian, "Your country has a fantastic history, trouble is, your still living in it."