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Armor/AFV: British Armor
Discuss all types of British Armor of all eras.
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Centurion question
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, May 30, 2019 - 02:38 AM UTC
I just got the 1/72 Ace Models Centurion Mk 5. This kit:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/ACE-1-72-Centurion-Mk-5-British-Main-Battle-Tank-72426/1794767045?iid=332639409964
The kit comes with two gun barrels: a 20 lb w/ fume extractor, and another (also 20lb?) without fume extractor. If I use the latter barrel would that make it a Mk 3, or are there other visible differences between the two?
ReluctantRenegade
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Wien, Austria
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Posted: Thursday, May 30, 2019 - 03:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The kit comes with two gun barrels: a 20 lb w/ fume extractor, and another (also 20lb?) without fume extractor.



Early 20 pdrs came without, later ones with bore-evacuator.
ReluctantRenegade
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Wien, Austria
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Posted: Thursday, May 30, 2019 - 03:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

If I use the latter barrel would that make it a Mk 3



The IDF did have Mk.5s equipped with 20 pdrs w/o bore-evacuator:

https://yadlashiryon.com/armored/%D7%98%D7%A0%D7%A7-%D7%A1%D7%A0%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%95%D7%9F-%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%9E%D7%9F-5-20/
hazzardm
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 13, 2010
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Posted: Thursday, May 30, 2019 - 03:46 AM UTC
Some clarifications

The only difference between a Mk3 and a Mk5 is the presence of a ranging co axial MG on the Mk5, that is it, the main armament does not define the variant

The pic of the one at Latrun (above) is an Ex Dutch army vehicle that never entered IDF service.

MJH
ReluctantRenegade
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Wien, Austria
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Posted: Thursday, May 30, 2019 - 03:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The pic of the one at Latrun (above) is an Ex Dutch army vehicle that never entered IDF service.



Good to know, thanks for the clarification! According to the capture, 'large number of Centurion Mk.5s equipped with the 20 pdr gun and Meteor petrol engine were purchased during the second half of the 60s' - so all these had the later type 20 pdr with bore-evacuator?





LeoCmdr
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, May 30, 2019 - 05:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The pic of the one at Latrun (above) is an Ex Dutch army vehicle that never entered IDF service.



Good to know, thanks for the clarification! According to the capture, 'large number of Centurion Mk.5s equipped with the 20 pdr gun and Meteor petrol engine were purchased during the second half of the 60s' - so all these had the later type 20 pdr with bore-evacuator?


The 20 Pounder barrels (A Type- without fume extractor) or (B Type- with fume extractor) were interchangeable with a swap occurring fairly quickly if need be. It would likely depend on what types of barrels were on hand.

A display tank could have simply had a barrel that reached its lifespan mounted as it would never be fired again.

Canadian Centurions Mk. 5s could be seen with A and/or B Type barrels until they were retired in the 1970s...as well as the 105mm L7 for the Mk6 and Mk11LRs.



Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
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Posted: Thursday, May 30, 2019 - 07:49 AM UTC
...and what about the position of the loaders hatch? IsnĎt that the difference from Mk3 to Mk5?
18Bravo
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Thursday, May 30, 2019 - 07:50 AM UTC
No, it is not.
They began being rotated parallel for mid-production tanks, regardless of mark.
Biggles2
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Posted: Thursday, May 30, 2019 - 10:33 AM UTC
So I can build this kit with the non-fume extractor barrel as a Mk 3 in service in Korea - 1951..1952?
LeoCmdr
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, May 30, 2019 - 12:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

So I can build this kit with the non-fume extractor barrel as a Mk 3 in service in Korea - 1951..1952?



Yes
RLlockie
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United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2019 - 05:49 AM UTC
The loaderís hatch configuration changed to allow the breech ring to be extracted through the roof more easily as I recall.

Other common features which are often claimed to define a 5 against a 3 are the position of the loaderís periscope and the trackguard bin design. Like all tanks with long production runs, these and the change from Type A to Type B 20pdr barrel are just evolutions with no change of designation.

You could turn a Mk 3 into a Mk 5 in a matter of hours by switching the co-ax.
keo
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Nordjylland, Denmark
Joined: January 30, 2006
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2019 - 06:37 AM UTC
For many years it has been a course of debate here in Denmark weather we received Mkiii or Mk5 Centurion tanks (some even claim we received war beaten samples with holes from the Korean War).
All Iíve seen has the turned turret hatch, the periscope in front of the loader and the side operated boxes on the hull. In the beginning they had Besa guns.
Would it be fair the describe them as late model MkIIIs?
18Bravo
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2019 - 08:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text

So I can build this kit with the non-fume extractor barrel as a Mk 3 in service in Korea - 1951..1952?



You have to delete a return roller on each side as well. That was the one other difference between the marks.
ALBOWIE
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New South Wales, Australia
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2019 - 02:09 PM UTC
[quote]
Quoted Text

So I can build this kit with the non-fume extractor barrel as a Mk 3 in service in Korea - 1951..1952?



The Fender Stowage bins were different and the Loaders hatch position for most Korean war vehicles is in a different position. Some late Mk 3 were almost identical excepting the coax types
18Bravo
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2019 - 03:01 PM UTC

Quoted Text


The Fender Stowage bins were different and the Loaders hatch position for most Korean war vehicles is in a different position. Some late Mk 3 were almost identical excepting the coax types



True, for most. But don't let the bins be a show stopper.

RLlockie
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United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, June 01, 2019 - 05:25 PM UTC
If it has a co-ax Besa, itís a Mk. 3. So yes, you are correct.