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Ebbro 1/20 scale Brabham BT18 F2
Joel_W
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Posted: Thursday, February 28, 2019 - 03:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Joel, are you building a Brabham or a Fokker?
It looks very nice so far - no doubt. And the amount of time you have spent in research pays off big time now and allows you to identify at a glance the kit's errors.
I'm by no means a specialist in open wheels cars, but the detail provided by Ebbro in this one looks very good. I'm just gonna mark down that name, just in case some day I have any idea...

Gabriel



Gabriel,
I'm pretty certain it's a Brabham, not a Fokker, as I never learned the skills needed to successfully build a bi-plane.

On a more serious note, I truly love doing the research on these earlier race cars, as that's when my interests in road racing took shape.

This is my 2nd Ebbro kit, and both of them are Tamiya quality. If for no other reason then all the engineers are from Tamiya from the top down, and Tamiya is the parent company.

Joel
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Posted: Thursday, February 28, 2019 - 03:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Ow another build to follow, how did I miss the start of this?

Any way great start to this build Joel, and as for fire I just watched via YouTube the opening race of this years NASCAR truck series, a few fires on the first lap! Unfortunately none of our tv channels show these races and weíve also just lost the channel that did show the Aussie V8 supercars so now Iím stuck with the boring F1.

Well Iím off to watch the second race of the truck series on YouTube and see if I can find the V8ís on there as well for when the new season begins.



Luciano,

the important thing is that you're now along for the journey. So glad to have you on board.

To me F1 is like the NASA space program. highly technical, cutting edge, and super expensive. Nascar no matter the series is more down to earth. the cars and trucks are all spec series, and you can literally still make a chassis in your shop. The Aero tech stuff is done by Nascar and the bodies are all basically the same aero wise. Makes for great side by side racing. F1 is just the opposite where teams design within the rules but every car is different including the engine package. Still, I do love F1 for just those reasons.

Now the Aussie V8 Supercar Series I have to search the net for, and I'm still watching the Bathhurst race. Even Paul Tracy a Indy car driver from Canada drove in it. and the guy is an all time favorite of mine. This series has some of the best competition, and great world class drivers. Even Roger Penske owns the team that is the Ford factory team.

Joel
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Posted: Thursday, February 28, 2019 - 04:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Ow another build to follow, how did I miss the start of this?

Any way great start to this build Joel, and as for fire I just watched via YouTube the opening race of this years NASCAR truck series, a few fires on the first lap! Unfortunately none of our tv channels show these races and weíve also just lost the channel that did show the Aussie V8 supercars so now Iím stuck with the boring F1.

Well Iím off to watch the second race of the truck series on YouTube and see if I can find the V8ís on there as well for when the new season begins.



Luciano,

the important thing is that you're now along for the journey. So glad to have you on board.

To me F1 is like the NASA space program. highly technical, cutting edge, and super expensive. Nascar no matter the series is more down to earth. the cars and trucks are all spec series, and you can literally still make a chassis in your shop. The Aero tech stuff is done by Nascar and the bodies are all basically the same aero wise. Makes for great side by side racing. F1 is just the opposite where teams design within the rules but every car is different including the engine package. Still, I do love F1 for just those reasons.

Now the Aussie V8 Supercar Series I have to search the net for, and I'm still watching the Bathhurst race. Even Paul Tracy a Indy car driver from Canada drove in it. and the guy is an all time favorite of mine. This series has some of the best competition, and great world class drivers. Even Roger Penske owns the team that is the Ford factory team.

Joel



Joel totally agree, for me however I have found that F1 has just got boring as there seems to be no overtaking and whom ever gets in the lead stays there unless they make a mistake.
I love the V8ís and used to watch the Ute series as well, just seen a YouTube video of a 3 time NASCAR champion taken on a fast lap of Bathurst by Jason Bright and s*** himself
Iíd love to be able to get to Bathurst one year to watch the race.

Just watching the NASCAR race at Atlanta as Iím writing this.

Sorry Iíve got off topic.
AussieReg
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Posted: Thursday, February 28, 2019 - 08:57 AM UTC
Great to see you making a start on this one Joel, and it definitely would have been nice to see a round tube cage instead of half-round. Maybe just the difficulty of reducing to scale. To get the correct overall width the body would need to be paper-thin, so the compromise is in the thickness of the cage.

Very nice work so far.

Off-topic, my uncle was one of the head scrutineers here in Australia for many years so I spent some time
in pit lane with him at a few Supercar races. Amazing stuff to see up close. Luciano, you definitely need to get for Bathurst one year, it is the best race on the planet! I have been there 3 times over the years.

Cheers,
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, March 01, 2019 - 02:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Ow another build to follow, how did I miss the start of this?

Any way great start to this build Joel, and as for fire I just watched via YouTube the opening race of this years NASCAR truck series, a few fires on the first lap! Unfortunately none of our tv channels show these races and weíve also just lost the channel that did show the Aussie V8 supercars so now Iím stuck with the boring F1.

Well Iím off to watch the second race of the truck series on YouTube and see if I can find the V8ís on there as well for when the new season begins.



Luciano,

the important thing is that you're now along for the journey. So glad to have you on board.

To me F1 is like the NASA space program. highly technical, cutting edge, and super expensive. Nascar no matter the series is more down to earth. the cars and trucks are all spec series, and you can literally still make a chassis in your shop. The Aero tech stuff is done by Nascar and the bodies are all basically the same aero wise. Makes for great side by side racing. F1 is just the opposite where teams design within the rules but every car is different including the engine package. Still, I do love F1 for just those reasons.

Now the Aussie V8 Supercar Series I have to search the net for, and I'm still watching the Bathhurst race. Even Paul Tracy a Indy car driver from Canada drove in it. and the guy is an all time favorite of mine. This series has some of the best competition, and great world class drivers. Even Roger Penske owns the team that is the Ford factory team.

Joel



Joel totally agree, for me however I have found that F1 has just got boring as there seems to be no overtaking and whom ever gets in the lead stays there unless they make a mistake.
I love the V8ís and used to watch the Ute series as well, just seen a YouTube video of a 3 time NASCAR champion taken on a fast lap of Bathurst by Jason Bright and s*** himself
Iíd love to be able to get to Bathurst one year to watch the race.

Just watching the NASCAR race at Atlanta as Iím writing this.

Sorry Iíve got off topic.



Luciano,
You've hit it right on the head. the lack of passing and side by side racing has been a major issue for F1 for the last several years. It's so bad that they've been trying every which way to decrease the aero packages so that the cars can actually race. The term dirty air to me means lack of racing. A few years ago F1 was basically nothing but time trials for 2 hours. Positions only changed by who had the better and faster pit stops. Boring to say the least. I rarely watched a full race as the fast forward button was my best racing friend. it's gotten better, but it will never be what it once was.

Indy car racing was rapidly getting into that mold as well, but paid attention to what their fans were saying and comparing it what Nascar offered. So they've also made great strides in reducing the effects of the spec cars aero packages, and thus allowing the drivers to actually race


Joel
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2019 - 11:59 AM UTC
Great start Joel and the detail looks very good for the scale, perhaps even better than the older 1/12 Tamiya kits. Looking forward to this continuing.

cheers
Michael
Joel_W
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2019 - 12:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Great start Joel and the detail looks very good for the scale, perhaps even better than the older 1/12 Tamiya kits. Looking forward to this continuing.

cheers
Michael




Michael,

Thanks for the thumbs up. It's greatly appreciated. I've got to say that it's really quite a well thought out and highly detailed kit. So far not a single issue that hasn't been caused by me.

Joel
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Posted: Monday, March 04, 2019 - 10:05 PM UTC
miss a few days and I nearly miss the entire build

looking great Joel!
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, March 05, 2019 - 02:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

miss a few days and I nearly miss the entire build

looking great Joel!



Russell,
No problems. Long way to go on the BT 18. Just glad your along for the journey now.

Joel
Merlin
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Posted: Wednesday, March 06, 2019 - 09:38 AM UTC
Hi Joel

You've definitely convinced me into trying an Ebbro kit. My wallet is safe for the moment, though, because the "Jim Clark" Lotus 49 is out of stock everywhere I've looked over here. I will get it as soon as I can, though.

It's fun reading the comments about how F1 is losing touch with those of us who want to see pure racing again. The BBC has just run an article about how the "powers that be" behind F1 are trying to produce a template for cars in the 2020/21 season that will overcome the aerodynamic problems and allow closer racing:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47422390

I've got to wonder if they're aren't still missing the point; '60s style F1 racing was simply far more exciting to watch. So - obviously, include all the safety measures that have been developed since then - but, perhaps?..., they need to strip off most of the aerodynamics and get back to the basics; four wheels and a powerful engine - and a driver with the skill to pull it all together without so much communication/control from his team.

All the best

Rowan
Joel_W
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2019 - 01:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Joel

You've definitely convinced me into trying an Ebbro kit. My wallet is safe for the moment, though, because the "Jim Clark" Lotus 49 is out of stock everywhere I've looked over here. I will get it as soon as I can, though.

It's fun reading the comments about how F1 is losing touch with those of us who want to see pure racing again. The BBC has just run an article about how the "powers that be" behind F1 are trying to produce a template for cars in the 2020/21 season that will overcome the aerodynamic problems and allow closer racing:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47422390

I've got to wonder if they're aren't still missing the point; '60s style F1 racing was simply far more exciting to watch. So - obviously, include all the safety measures that have been developed since then - but, perhaps?..., they need to strip off most of the aerodynamics and get back to the basics; four wheels and a powerful engine - and a driver with the skill to pull it all together without so much communication/control from his team.

All the best

Rowan



Rowan,
the non-passing issue plagues every form of racing these days to some degree. Indy Cars has been working overtime to get the cars to the point of side by side/over taking again as it also got to the point of follow the leader till the pit stop strategy where all things being equal on the track decided who won and who lost. They've made great strides, but still have a long way to go.

Nascar because they run more and more on 1-2 mile tracks needed to create their own form of aerodynamics to keep the cars glued to the track, especially during an accident and not parts flying into the packed stands. It has gotten to the point that they have the opposite effect by tucking up to the car in front of them, which disturbs the air flow off that car, and it has to check up in high speed corners. Then there is a new concept called side drafting that lets the passing car use the air moving along the side of the car their over taking to gain an advantage. And finally Nascar has gotten rid of those stupid restrictor plates for Talledaga and Daytona where through not enough HP it's conga lines and huge pile ups.

IMSA seems to have a better control over these issues as 2 of the classes are based off of "street cars" and two are prototypes that do suffer similar problems.

I've long been a proponent of going back to the sucker ground effects and limiting the downforce that way. Front and rear wings go back to what they were at some earlier point just to keep the cars safe to drive. Now you can race, draft, and pass. It worked before, and it can work again. The other issues is limiting HP and torque and the various compounds by track. Back in the season of seasons: 1967, one set of tires went the whole distance as did fuel load. The whole concept of pit stops was to reduce the fuel load for safety concerns, but has turned out to be the only true racing concept these days.

Only time will tell for sure, but it's something at least when every major racing series is now addressing these issues.

As for the Ebbro Lotus 49 of Clark and Hill, I bought mine as soon as it came out. Why I haven't built it as yet makes zero sense. But sooner or later you'll get one. I do see them on ebay all the time.

Joel
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2019 - 08:05 AM UTC
The car next to Jack Brabham is not the BT18. - rather an earlier BT, or a Cooper, he drove Coopers before building his own cars ( the roll hoop is different, the tyres narrower)- We're looking at something like 1960-62. I guess....
Merlin
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2019 - 08:49 AM UTC
Hi Joel

I've tried watching a couple of Formula E races because they are supposedly more exciting than F1, but I couldn't get into it at all - the tracks were horrible to look at and all the "fan boost" etc. seemed like gimmicks. Overall, I found it about as interesting as watching slot-car racing.

Hopefully Ebbro's original Lotus 49 kit will be back in stock in the UK soon. I see it is available on Amazon as an import - but costs a packet. Meanwhile, I'll do as you suggest and keep an eye on E-Bay.

It's tempting to get the Gold Leaf 49B while I wait - but I do think the first version is the prettiest.

All the best

Rowan
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 - 02:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The car next to Jack Brabham is not the BT18. - rather an earlier BT, or a Cooper, he drove Coopers before building his own cars ( the roll hoop is different, the tyres narrower)- We're looking at something like 1960-62. I guess....



Hans,

Brabham was building his own cars for several years prior to the introduction of the BT18 in 1966 when Honda approached him to change power plants.

The chassis was listed as a BT18. What looks identical to me is the engine cradle, which is also exactly the same as the kit version, and my purpose to show that the tubing used was completely round, not half round as the kits sides walls. Yet the bottom tubing is indeed completely round.

Now this is not to say that in reality it's not a BT16 which was the introduced in March 1965 as that year's F2 car. From what little I do know he could have used a Cosworth, BRM, or even another engine. Careful study of the picture shows that the valve covers are indeed not a Honda, but I can't tell what it is.

Joel

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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 - 02:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Joel

I've tried watching a couple of Formula E races because they are supposedly more exciting than F1, but I couldn't get into it at all - the tracks were horrible to look at and all the "fan boost" etc. seemed like gimmicks. Overall, I found it about as interesting as watching slot-car racing.

Hopefully Ebbro's original Lotus 49 kit will be back in stock in the UK soon. I see it is available on Amazon as an import - but costs a packet. Meanwhile, I'll do as you suggest and keep an eye on E-Bay.

It's tempting to get the Gold Leaf 49B while I wait - but I do think the first version is the prettiest.

All the best

Rowan



Rowan, like I said, ebay is loaded with them. I've got the 49, the B, and I'm buying a C. IndyCals for all 3 versions and Gravity paints.

I also tried to watch a Formula E race, and what struck me more then anything else is no engine noise The racing was really competitive, but like you I just couldn't get into it as I didn't know a single driver, car, nor team.

I've been watching Nascar races since Daytona, but this weekend is the opener in St. Petersburgh for the Indy cars, so I'll record the Nascar Race. Once the season for my top 3 series are in full swing, I'll really limit my Nascar viewing to a few select ovals like Bristol, and all the road courses.

Joel
Merlin
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 - 08:39 AM UTC
Hi Joel

I didn't spot any of the original kits on E-Bay when I checked this morning, so I've done the next best thing and ordered the 49B. If Jim Clark was my hero as a kid, Graham Hill was a very close runner up.

I found a bizarrely negative customer review of the 49B on E-Models:

"awful kit, at times the instructions were vague, parts fitted badly . the worst bit was the gearbox mounting frame which did not fit at all. the mountings being nearly 1/2 inch out [part Q3] l endured until the point where the wheels would not fit easily and , as l so often found , needed a bit of force and swearing the suspension didn't like my swearing and broke . lt is now sitting where it landed looking like its lost an arguement with some armco .......... l am an experienced model maker and this was my 1st ebbro kit , wont be buying another one . l realize none of this is of your making but thought you would like to know......"

Wheel mountings almost half an inch out? On the basis of the customer review, I'll certainly pay attention to that area in my review, but it seems like the modeller was trying to fit things back to front. Full marks to E-Models for letting the review stand, but (hopefully!) I'll be able to post an alternative view in due course...

All the best

Rowan
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 - 09:19 AM UTC
Rowan,
I had 3 drivers as my absolute heroes: Dan Gurney, Jim Clark, & Bruce McLaren.

While I haven't built any of the Lotuses, I did build the Lotus 72E:





The parts fit was nearly perfect. Any issues were caused by me.

As far as the Lotus kit(s) go, they're Ebbro's 1st F1 kits in this series, so I'm sure that there's some minor fit issues. The head of Ebbro as well as almost all of the staff are former Tamiya designers, so they more then know their way around F1 kits. And They are owned by Tamiya which has to be a major plus.

I've read a few build blogs on the 49 and while there are some issues like the front bulkhead not having absolute mounting points, there is nothing like what that guy is claiming. Personally, stating he's not a novice builder could just mean that he's bombed many kits or just struggled across the finish line.

Here's some pictures of a outstanding build by a Kiwi that says it all.









And here's the link to his build on Kiwi Modeler

https://automodeler.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=reply&forum_id=41&topic_id=275536&post_id=0&page=2

BTW, I just got the deal of a life time from a friend on another racing list. He sold me the MPC Olsonite AAR 1968 Gurney Eagle for $50 including shipping, which makes the kit about $39. I've wanted this kit for a million years, and he has 12 of them!

Joel




Merlin
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 - 09:47 AM UTC
Hi Joel

Not having seen Ebbro's Lotus 49B yet, I wouldn't want to say anything disparaging about the customer's modelling skills, but my gut instinct is that I won't be disappointed with the kit.

It's my modelling "60th birthday present to me" - and I reckon it'll be a treat! My musical present is a bit more fancy - Gordon Smith (via Richard's Guitars) are custom-building me a Telecas*** - let's call it a "T-Style".

All the best

Rowan
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 - 12:46 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Joel

Not having seen Ebbro's Lotus 49B yet, I wouldn't want to say anything disparaging about the customer's modelling skills, but my gut instinct is that I won't be disappointed with the kit.

It's my modelling "60th birthday present to me" - and I reckon it'll be a treat! My musical present is a bit more fancy - Gordon Smith (via Richard's Guitars) are custom-building me a Telecas... - let's call it a "T-Style".

All the best

Rowan



Well Buddy,
Let me be the 1st to wish you a happy birthday. BTW, I have no idea what a Telecas is. I have absolutely zero musical talent what so ever.

Joel
Merlin
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 - 09:28 PM UTC
Cheers Joel

Hopefully I'll get a good bit of modelling done before the guitar arrives, because it should be a major distraction!

All the best

Rowan
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Posted: Saturday, March 09, 2019 - 02:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Cheers Joel

Hopefully I'll get a good bit of modelling done before the guitar arrives, because it should be a major distraction!

All the best

Rowan



Rowan,

So that's what they're making for you. That's fantastic.

I haven't modeled since Tuesday, but will be giving it a shot later today. At my age my fingers crack and bleed. Tuesday I got Lacquer Cleaner in some really wide open splits, and have paid the penalty for it. Getting old really sucks big time.

Joel

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Posted: Monday, March 11, 2019 - 07:53 AM UTC
Not really an update as yet, but I haven't dropped off the face of the earth with my BT 18 build. This past Wednesday was the last work session I've had as I've been really struggling this winter with cracked skin by my finger nails, and on the pads of my fingers. This year they've been way worse then when I was actually working.

The best I can figure is that every night I used Crack Cream on them, and in the morning I could see improvement, but then a work session that always of late involves air brushing, and then cleaning with Lacquer Thinner, just did a number on those cracks. Not only were the splits worse then ever, but boy did they hurt.

By Wednesday I just couldn't hold my tools, nor paint till I got a handle on this. Finally I went to see my druggist, who suggested that I wear Vinyl or better yet Nitrile gloves when modeling or doing just about anything till the humidity returns in the warmer weather. So I bought a box of 50 for $10 US and I was able to air brush today, and actually clean up without any issues. Of course I managed to spill some LC on one hand after I removed my gloves

So now I'm on track for a update on the finished front suspension, radiator with plumbing, and the dry sump oil tank and lines later this week.

Joel
AussieReg
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Posted: Monday, March 11, 2019 - 03:36 PM UTC
Looking forward to the updates Joel. Sorry to hear about your problems as well, definitely doesn't sound enjoyable at all. I recall my father after decades of mechanical repairs and engineering how his hands had severely cracked due to the dehydrating effects of the chemicals and aggressive hand cleaners. I really hope that the gloves are the answer for you to continue pain-free in this hobby.

Cheers, D
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Posted: Monday, March 11, 2019 - 08:44 PM UTC
I feel your pain Joel. I have the same problems in the winter time. By the sound of it, not as bad as you though.

Gloves are a must, when handling chemicals

Looking forward to seeing the images.
Merlin
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Posted: Monday, March 11, 2019 - 08:52 PM UTC
Hi Joel

I'm sorry to read about the trouble you're having with your hands. I really sympathise, because the tip of one of my thumbs splits every winter and hurts like nobody's business - so having splits all over must be terrible!

I'm glad you've at least a partial answer and can get back to work on this fantastic build!

All the best

Rowan