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Armor/AFV: IDF [Israeli Defense Forces]
Armor and AFVs of the IDF army from 1947-today.
Hosted by Darren Baker
IDF tanks from 1948 up to the Merkava 4M
tanknick22
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Posted: Saturday, February 02, 2019 - 04:03 PM UTC
Im thinking of a project of building IDF battle tanks from the M4A3 (Tamar ? ) used in 1948 up to the current Merkava 4M used today I know the next was the M1 then the M50 then the M51
I want to try and do this in some sort or chronicalogical order not sure where a Centurion or Shot Kal fit in and as for the Magach series M48 and M60 I dont want to go crazy and build the entire Magach series i want to pick 1 M48 and 1 M60 that best represents each
GaryKato
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Posted: Saturday, February 02, 2019 - 08:53 PM UTC
Shot 1959, Shot Kal 1970, M48A1 and M48A2C 1965, M1 Super Sherman (M4A1E8) 1956.

1956 was a busy time for IDF armor. They were working on the M50, but it was agonizingly slow. As a stop-gap, they ordered M44A1s with the 76mm. Evidently they got both VVSS and HVSS Shermans from France. And don't forget the AMX-13s came around the same time.

GTDeath13
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Posted: Sunday, February 03, 2019 - 12:31 AM UTC
Cromwell was first (Prior to the War of Independence in 1948, two Cromwell tanks were stolen by IDF combatants from a British Army base before they left Mandated-Palestine. These two tanks took part alongside French Hotchkiss light tanks in Operations Dany, Yoav and Horev of the 1948 War of Independence.)


Then Sherman,Centurion, M48, T54, T55, M60, T62, Merkava I, II, III, IV.

You can consider AMX13s as auxiliary recon vehicles and not MBTs.

Sherman chronological order is a mess, since the IDF obtained a mix of types and subvariants over the years. You can simply do a M4A1 76mm, a M50 from 1957 and a M51 from the Yom Kippur War.

Centurions are easier, start with a simple Mk5 with 20 pdr gun, then do a Shot Cal, than a Gimel or Dalet depending on hich you like more.

M48s start from M48A1 and captured M48s, then M48A2C, then Magach 3 and last Magach 5, leaving out the Pereh with the Spike missiles.

M60s start with the M60 slick, then M60A1, then Magach 6B, then M60A3, then Magach 6R, Magach 6M,Magach 6B Gal, Magach 7A and 7C and Magach 6B Gal Batash.
Das_Abteilung
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Posted: Sunday, February 03, 2019 - 09:56 AM UTC
For the Shermans, you need Tom Gannon's book on IDF Shermans. It has all the variations. They had no "vanilla" M4A3s, although some of the very few (12?) welded-hull M51's might have been built on HVSS M4A3s and there may have been a very few VVSS A3s re-fitted with the radial engine. I would look it up but all my books are in storage.

I have a build list and pretty much all the parts for a dozen or more IDF Shermans, excluding the 75mm types.

There are plenty of books on Magachs and Sh'ots, which went through several variations.

There were only 2 Cromwells IIRC, both stolen/"liberated".

Don't forget the Hotchkiss H35/39s.

They ran 2 Chieftains for a while before we asked for them back after the licence production deal fell through. Not sure those count.

And you have the Tirans, of which there are potentially 9 variations although I think not all were actually built.

Would you include the Achilles? If yes, would you include the small number fitted with the CN-75 gun as per the M51?
tanknick22
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Posted: Sunday, February 03, 2019 - 01:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

For the Shermans, you need Tom Gannon's book on IDF Shermans. It has all the variations. They had no "vanilla" M4A3s, although some of the very few (12?) welded-hull M51's might have been built on HVSS M4A3s and there may have been a very few VVSS A3s re-fitted with the radial engine. I would look it up but all my books are in storage.

I have a build list and pretty much all the parts for a dozen or more IDF Shermans, excluding the 75mm types.

There are plenty of books on Magachs and Sh'ots, which went through several variations.

There were only 2 Cromwells IIRC, both stolen/"liberated".

Don't forget the Hotchkiss H35/39s.

They ran 2 Chieftains for a while before we asked for them back after the licence production deal fell through. Not sure those count.

And you have the Tirans, of which there are potentially 9 variations although I think not all were actually built.

Would you include the Achilles? If yes, would you include the small number fitted with the CN-75 gun as per the M51?


No Achilles
tanknick22
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Posted: Sunday, February 03, 2019 - 01:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Cromwell was first (Prior to the War of Independence in 1948, two Cromwell tanks were stolen by IDF combatants from a British Army base before they left Mandated-Palestine. These two tanks took part alongside French Hotchkiss light tanks in Operations Dany, Yoav and Horev of the 1948 War of Independence.)


Then Sherman,Centurion, M48, T54, T55, M60, T62, Merkava I, II, III, IV.

You can consider AMX13s as auxiliary recon vehicles and not MBTs.

Sherman chronological order is a mess, since the IDF obtained a mix of types and subvariants over the years. You can simply do a M4A1 76mm, a M50 from 1957 and a M51 from the Yom Kippur War.

Centurions are easier, start with a simple Mk5 with 20 pdr gun, then do a Shot Cal, than a Gimel or Dalet depending on hich you like more.

M48s start from M48A1 and captured M48s, then M48A2C, then Magach 3 and last Magach 5, leaving out the Pereh with the Spike missiles.

M60s start with the M60 slick, then M60A1, then Magach 6B, then M60A3, then Magach 6R, Magach 6M,Magach 6B Gal, Magach 7A and 7C and Magach 6B Gal Batash.



as for the Centurion,M48 and M60 I dont want to go crazy
and want to use one tank that best represents the centurion ,M48 and M60
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Sunday, February 03, 2019 - 08:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text

as for the Centurion,M48 and M60 I dont want to go crazy
and want to use one tank that best represents the centurion ,M48 and M60



I would go for the Sho't Kal Gimel or Dalet, the Magach 3 and the Magach 6B respectively.
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Sunday, February 03, 2019 - 08:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

There were only 2 Cromwells IIRC, both stolen/"liberated".



The story behind those Cromwells: http://machal.org.il/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=766&Itemid=1175&lang=en
GTDeath13
#481
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Posted: Monday, February 04, 2019 - 03:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text


as for the Centurion,M48 and M60 I dont want to go crazy
and want to use one tank that best represents the centurion ,M48 and M60



Magach 3 would be the best M48 representaqtive IMHO (Dragon 3546 kit wwith DEF conversion, I have posted a build on the subject), Shot Cal Alef for the Centurion or Gimel as they operated in Lebanon (AFV Club kit) and a Magach 6B or 6B Gal for the M60 (AFV Club kit recently released of the 6B)
armouredcharmer
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Posted: Monday, February 04, 2019 - 08:18 AM UTC
My humble thanks to all who are posting here, this is probably one of the best topics ever posted here, thoroughly enjoying reading every submission.
Any chance of some pictures?, I`m a big IDF fan and would love to see pictures to wet my modelling appetite.
corsutton
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Posted: Monday, February 04, 2019 - 08:27 AM UTC
If you want pictures, look no further than a forum here on armorama

https://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=260992&page=1

You should find lots of pictures here.