login   |    register
Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
PHOTOS
Kharkov Pz.Kpfw IV G
ColinEdm
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,239 posts
Armorama: 1,155 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 22, 2018 - 11:54 AM UTC
Dan Holland shares some pictures of his Pz IV G in winter whitewash at Kharkov in 1943.



Link to Item

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
obg153
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: April 07, 2009
KitMaker: 905 posts
Armorama: 891 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 23, 2018 - 04:01 AM UTC
A nice clean build. But the scene as described doesn't work for me. A mid-winter tank with no mud/snow on it, not even a slightly bent fender. Take the figures out, and this PzIV would look more like one in summer'43 at Kursk. My 2 cents anyway.
Hohenstaufen
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: December 13, 2004
KitMaker: 2,044 posts
Armorama: 1,484 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 23, 2018 - 06:25 AM UTC
As Jack says, a nice clean build. But I can't agree with him about the scene not working. I've just looked at some pictures from Kharkov and the Leibstandarte tanks do look surprisingly clean, which says something about our perceptions vis-a-vis genuine contemporary photography. Remember the SS Panzer Korps was posted back to the East specifically for the Kharkov operation, after a refit in France in the case of the Leibstandarte and Das Reich, but not Totenkopf. So it's kit was mostly new and hadn't had time to get battered and dirty. It was also below freezing so not as muddy and dirty as might be expected. The whitewash coating also looks surprisingly uniform in the pictures. I personally think Dan is to be commended for striving for accuracy and not succumbing to the temptation to go for fullscale heavy weathering.
Tankwarrior
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 05, 2018
KitMaker: 8 posts
Armorama: 8 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 23, 2018 - 10:50 AM UTC
That's correct and if you check out the German newsreel footage, the AFVs in LAH look remarkably clean. The beginning of the counter offensive shows very little wear or damage.
I actually should have mixed the Tamiya flat white thinner and made some more wear on the wash. However, I did put slight dirt on the front fenders.I'm always up to listening to constructive criticism.
Taeuss
Visit this Community
Manitoba, Canada
Joined: January 03, 2016
KitMaker: 2,601 posts
Armorama: 2,592 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 23, 2018 - 03:42 PM UTC
I like it and don't get me wrong, but you have to wonder about exactly when those photos were taken. I can tell you from experience that even in sub-zero conditions tanks throw up dirt which, while not exactly mud, is a sticky, clumpy mess that ends up EVERYWHERE! So you have to wonder where those fine Liebstandarte tanks were driving along in a country notable for its lack of anything we'd consider roads. And they had been in battle, so some scuffing and dirt should be expected. Were they perhaps cleaned up for a propaganda photo-op? Who knows...
obg153
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: April 07, 2009
KitMaker: 905 posts
Armorama: 891 posts
Posted: Monday, December 24, 2018 - 02:19 PM UTC
Guess I should have clarified my comment somewhat. It's based on four Kharkov-related reference books I have, plus other observations. Some photos do show LAH tanks with only minor wear/damage, but for each of those, others show more. So it could go either way perhaps. However, with 1st SS arriving from France, means their vehicles would have been loaded onto trains, trundled several hundred or more miles (in the middle of winter) to southern Russia, unloaded, and then driven to their battle assembly areas. With Dan's example, I'm not suggesting full-scale heavy weathering either, as I agree with others that some builds overdo it. I like the idea for this scene, but I still think the tank is TOO clean.
Bravo1102
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,585 posts
Armorama: 2,253 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 - 06:33 AM UTC
Too clean? How about it's fresh off the train and arriving at its assembly area after a little drive. That matches the weathering.
There's no label saying how long it's been in theater so it could have just arrived with the ground guide pointing to the assembly area.
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
Visit this Community
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,402 posts
Armorama: 2,304 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 06, 2019 - 02:06 PM UTC
Dn,

Nice, clean, simple diorama. I like it.
PanzerKarl
Visit this Community
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 20, 2004
KitMaker: 2,309 posts
Armorama: 1,858 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 19, 2019 - 03:41 AM UTC
Looks like it's just been driven through a car wash