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Armor/AFV: IDF [Israeli Defense Forces]
Armor and AFVs of the IDF army from 1947-today.
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The Yom Kippur War - 45 years ago
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Monday, September 17, 2018 - 08:10 PM UTC
Since today is the eve of the 45th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War, it's a good opportunity to share the following link with plenty of interesting photos from that period: https://www.fresh.co.il/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=292107

KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Monday, September 17, 2018 - 10:21 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Since today is the eve of the 45th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War . . .




Today is September 18. The Yom Kippur War was fought in October.

Do you realize that the date of Yom Kippur, like Easter, changes from year and is not tied to the modern civil calendar?

KL
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Monday, September 17, 2018 - 11:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Since today is the eve of the 45th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War . . .




Today is September 18. The Yom Kippur War was fought in October.

Do you realize that the date of Yom Kippur, like Easter, changes from year and is not tied to the modern civil calendar?

KL



As a matter of fact I do, that's exactly the reason I've opened this thread today, on the eve of Yom Kippur, and not on 06 October (the corresponding Gregorian date for Yom Kippur in 1973).
canismalus
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 04:01 AM UTC
Hi Israel,

Thanks a lot for the link - I just got done re-reading Abraham Rabinovich's book on the war, and those pictures are a great accompaniment (apart from being endless inspiration for modeling.)

Jerry
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 04:16 AM UTC
Thanks Jerry, much appreciated!
Here's some more: https://www.fresh.co.il/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=579822
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 04:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Since today is the eve of the 45th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War . . .




Today is September 18. The Yom Kippur War was fought in October.

Do you realize that the date of Yom Kippur, like Easter, changes from year and is not tied to the modern civil calendar?

KL



As a matter of fact I do, that's exactly the reason I've opened this thread today, on the eve of Yom Kippur, and not on 06 October (the corresponding Gregorian date for Yom Kippur in 1973).



While this may be 10 Tishrei 5779 meaning that Yom Kippur starts at sundown today, it not the "eve of the 45th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War", which are the words you wrote. That will be 5 October 2018.

KL
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 04:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

While this may be 10 Tishrei 5779 meaning that Yom Kippur starts at sundown today, it not the "eve of the 45th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War", which are the words you wrote. That will be 5 October 2018.



Maybe in Pennsylvania. In Israel it's today.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/odds-of-war-lower-than-low-papers-highlight-intel-failures-in-yom-kippur-war/

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-recording-of-idf-s-general-staff-talk-on-eve-of-yom-kippur-war-released-1.6489020
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 04:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text



While this may be 10 Tishrei 5779 meaning that Yom Kippur starts at sundown today, it not the "eve of the 45th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War", which are the words you wrote. That will be 5 October 2018.

KL



Sort of depends on which calendar one prefers to use.
When the calendar depends on leap months (instead of leap days) it becomes complicated. If something happened on the day after the 28th of February does the anniversary always occur on the 1st of March or does it occur on the last day of February every fourth year (except for centennial years that are not divisible by 400).

If we took the solar year to extremes we would be toasting for a Happy New Year at midnight, 06:00, noon, 18:00 and then back at midnight after 4 years (except for the next turn of century at 2100). Pity thechild born on the 29th of February, it can only celebrate on its birthday every fourth year, the other years it is either the day before or the day after.

The Yom Kippur war started with Yom Kippur so the anniversary is fine with me
/ Robin
vettejack
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 06:56 AM UTC
Need more armor photo links !!!
jps
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 06:59 AM UTC
Pity thechild born on the 29th of February, it can only celebrate on its birthday every fourth year, the other years it is either the day before or the day after.

On the other hand I would only be 15 and my knees. shoulder and ankle wouldn't hurt so much.

Dave
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 07:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Pity thechild born on the 29th of February, it can only celebrate on its birthday every fourth year, the other years it is either the day before or the day after.

On the other hand I would only be 15 and my knees. shoulder and ankle wouldn't hurt so much.

Dave



KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 11:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

While this may be 10 Tishrei 5779 meaning that Yom Kippur starts at sundown today, it not the "eve of the 45th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War", which are the words you wrote. That will be 5 October 2018.



Maybe in Pennsylvania. In Israel it's today.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/odds-of-war-lower-than-low-papers-highlight-intel-failures-in-yom-kippur-war/

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-recording-of-idf-s-general-staff-talk-on-eve-of-yom-kippur-war-released-1.6489020



Yet another person who finds himself in a hole and figures the way out is to dig deeper.

In both of those articles they refer to the war occurring in October of 1973, not Tishrei of 5734. The war was a secular event, not something that was added to the Hebrew religious calendar. It's not appropriate to mix the two calendars.

KL
Tojo72
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 02:09 PM UTC
Seems simple to me Yom Kippur War was Oct 6-26 1973,cant get any simpler then that.
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 07:58 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Yet another person who finds himself in a hole and figures the way out is to dig deeper.



KL, my favorite AR member! Never fails to deliver! Thanks for being around, you definitely spice things up! If you don't mind, I would appreciate some comments on the photos as well, but you're not here for them ,are you...?


Quoted Text

In both of those articles they refer to the war occurring in October of 1973, not Tishrei of 5734.



...yet referring to yesterday, the eve of Yom Kippur', as the 'eve of the 45th anniversary' of the Yom Kippur War. I don't know how much you follow the Israeli media but that's how and when the event is being remembered and mentioned in all newspapers, radio-stations, TV-channels and family remembrance events.

Hold on, not just Israelis but some Americans in Long Island also think so. Armor fans even: http://museumofamericanarmor.com/on-the-eve-of-the-45thanniversary-of-the-yom-kippur-war-prayers-for-the-fallen-will-be-offered-beside-an-israeli-tank-that-survived-the-surprise-assault-israeli-tanker-veteran-who-survived-t/


Quoted Text

The war was a secular event



...as was the Declaration of Independence celebrated not on the 18 May but on the appropriate date on the Jewish calendar (around 5 Iyar).


Quoted Text

not something that was added to the Hebrew religious calendar.



No holiday/remembrance day can be officially 'added' to the traditional Jewish calendar, however, by state law, they're celebrated/remembered according to it: Yom HaShoa, Yom HaZikaron, Yom HaAtzmaut - all these secular events celebrated on their appropriate Hebrew dates. The Yom Kippur War in Israel is always remembered therefore on the preceding days to Yom Kippur, never on the 06 October.


Quoted Text

It's not appropriate to mix the two calendars.



Says who? The man using a single calendar all his life? In Israel both calendars are being used simultaneously therefore mixing is inevitable. Many secular Israeli Jews wouldn't even know the correct Hebrew date without looking it up, yet they celebrate all holidays according to it. Like (almost) everything else in Israel, it's all mixed up.

Apparently you can't cope with the fact that in Israel this event is being remembered 'inappropriately' now, according to the Jewish calendar, and not 'appropriately' on the 06 October, as it should be according to the Gregorian calendar. Suck it up.
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 08:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Seems simple to me Yom Kippur War was Oct 6-26 1973,cant get any simpler then that.



Ignorance is a bless, isn't? Makes life simpler...
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 08:33 PM UTC
For those who're here for the actual stuff rather than for the sake of argument, I've came across this link including interesting photos of a volunteer in a northern Kibbutz during the war. AFAIK, he's actually a member of AR. Ed, if you read this, it would be awesome if you could share your experience and comment on your photos!

https://www.fresh.co.il/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=477691

petbat
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 08:33 PM UTC
Hey let's leave the bickering behind and enjoy the moment. Today is 'International Talk Like a Pirate Day'

Moshe is getting in the swing of things:



ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 08:45 PM UTC
...and then crossing to Africa.

ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 09:29 PM UTC
Avigdor Kahalani, the CO of the 77th Battalion, is one of the highly decorated officers ever served in the IDF.















ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 09:42 PM UTC
Kahalani's Shot Kal Alef just has been issued by ACE Model in 1/72 scale:



Announcement here: https://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=29877

Decals in 1/35: http://www.sabingamartin.com/sim-011.html

canismalus
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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 10:52 PM UTC
Israel, thanks for the additional photos. Speaking of Mr. Kahalani, if any of you haven‘t read his personal account of the fighting on the Golan in ‘73, The Heights of Courage, I can heartily recommend it. I think I‘m gonna re-read that one now, too.

Jerry
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Posted: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 - 12:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Since today is the eve of the 45th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War, it's a good opportunity to share the following link with plenty of interesting photos from that period: https://www.fresh.co.il/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=292107




Brave men, it was truly a bloody fight. I don't know who had it worse, the tankers or the pilots who had to make near suicidal runs against SA-6's.

I was a kid living in Tehran at the time. I remember all my Iranian neighbors celebrating during the first few days of the war. Then they got quiet. Then they got angry and westerners were told to stay off the streets for a while....
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 - 09:04 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I don't know who had it worse, the tankers or the pilots who had to make near suicidal runs against SA-6's.



Spot-on, as always John. These two IDF branches indeed suffered heavy losses during the war.

The IAF lost 102 airplanes (out of 383 on the eve of the war): 32 Phantoms, 53 Skyhawks, 11 Mirages and 6 helicopters. 53 pilots were KIA/MIA, 44 were taken as POWs, 53 downed pilots were rescued.

Photos taken by 'Knights of the Orange Tail' (Tayeset 107) squadron members during the war: https://www.fresh.co.il/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=580055

The Armored Corps suffered tremendous losses: out of 2100 tanks on the eve of the war, over 400 were destroyed, more than 600 were damaged and/or captured. Out of the approximately 2600 IDF soldiers that lost their life during the war, 1542(!) belonged to the Armored Corps.

Another set of interesting photos from a personal perspective: https://www.fresh.co.il/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=519707



Quoted Text

I was a kid living in Tehran at the time. I remember all my Iranian neighbors celebrating during the first few days of the war. Then they got quiet. Then they got angry and westerners were told to stay off the streets for a while....



Interesting. Israel also maintained close ties to Iran until '79.
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 - 09:29 PM UTC
No picture symbolises more the wartime IDF largely reservist nature than this one, taken from the thread above. Every self-respecting kibbutznik had (and still has...) a pair of those! As a matter of fact, these slippers are still being produced in a virtually unchanged form by Dafna Shoes of Kibbutz Dafna in Northern Israel.







ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 - 10:08 PM UTC
Also a good example...

https://www.fresh.co.il/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=189499&highlight=%E6%EB%F8%E5%F0%E5%FA+%EE%E0%F4%F8%E9%F7%E4