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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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New Tamiya M3 Stuart
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 02:17 AM UTC

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Do the idlers have rubber tires?

Regards,

Marc


No- steel the roadwheels are rubber tires.
VR, Russ


Is this correct? I noticed the same mistake on the AFV Club M5A1. Aparently a lot of surviving tanks have the idler wheel rubber tires coroded away...
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 08:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Do the idlers have rubber tires?

Regards,

Marc


No- steel the roadwheels are rubber tires.
VR, Russ


Is this correct? I noticed the same mistake on the AFV Club M5A1. Aparently a lot of surviving tanks have the idler wheel rubber tires coroded away...


The idler wheel is the large wheel at the rear end of the M3- it was made of steel, the road wheels are the wheels the track runs along, and they have a rubber rim. The track was live action, which means it has a rubber pad embedded in the track, and bushings, which in turn absorb the shock. The idler wheel is definitely steel.
VR, Russ
WXerock
#450
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 08:24 AM UTC
Live track means that the track will roll itself into a coil if it isn't held flat by being wrapped around the wheels of a tank. That's a really simplified explanation. I couldn't think how else to say it.

Regards,

Eric
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 09:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Is this correct? I noticed the same mistake on the AFV Club M5A1. Aparently a lot of surviving tanks have the idler wheel rubber tires coroded away...


That seems unlikely. The M3 series used steel idlers, steel return rollers, and rubber tired road wheels. The M5 series did the same, except later a rubber tired idler was used and this wheel was sometimes retrofitted to older tanks.

KL
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 11:32 AM UTC
Sadly, the Stuart near me at Fort Lewis is an M3A1 (oh well) and has a welded hull, as Kurt mentioned. But what's not clear to me is the one at Tilicum, just down the road, which appears to be a late M3, but it has no turret basket inside, a really tall driveline housing, but the later M3 turret without a cupola. Anyone know if the late turret was retrofitted to early M3s without the turret basket? Is this perhaps a hybrid or "Frankentank" that they assembled from extra parts?
VR Russ
Bravo1102
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 01:13 PM UTC
A bunch of changes with the flat turret, turret basket, formed rear and welded hull all came together at once. So mix ups were bound to happen.

Also things on ranges can lose stuff like turret baskets. Then when it gets put back together for a display it's missing.
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 04:37 PM UTC
Good to hear the idler's fine.
Can the welded rear end be made into a cast one with just sanding the bend of the welded piece into a curve?

welded
http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/jeremy_wee/m3_stuart/

cast (page 4)
https://www.net-maquettes.com/pictures/m3a1-stuart-walkaround/?afg428_page_id=4#afg-428
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 10:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

A bunch of changes with the flat turret, turret basket, formed rear and welded hull all came together at once. So mix ups were bound to happen.

Also things on ranges can lose stuff like turret baskets. Then when it gets put back together for a display it's missing.


Stephen-- The "tunnel" for the drive line is way to high for any turret basket. In addition, the seats for the gunner/TC have frames on either side. It looks like an early M3 with an M3A1 turret, which is what I surmise it is. Probably something they put together from parts as you suggest. On the other hand, the one at the Fort Lewis Museum is pure M3A1 (welded hull, no rivets, rounded rear). The early M3 is just outside the WA National Guard HQ building, about a two miles down I-5 from Fort Lewis, and visible from the freeway. Both the driver and co-driver's view ports are open on that one so you can look right inside the hull, which still has it's original equipment tags in place, and is in pretty good shape considering it's been there about 30 years now at least.

Marc-- After looking at the sprues, Tamiya may be planning on making an early M3, late M3, and an M3A1 (with the rounded rear), since they have the upper hull sides separate As Michael Koenig (165thspc) mentioned. And it appears there are gaps in the upper hull where the different parts could go (for the rivited versions maybe). Let's hope! But the answer to you question is you could probably modify it (I did for a conversion of Tamiya's M5 kit several years ago) however, there is a line of distinctive screws heads on either side of this part and those would be hard to replicate since they are flush mounted with a slot.

VR, Russ
babaoriley
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 11:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I believe that the title was " The Haunted Tank". It was amazing how every German tank they ran across was a Tiger..and knocked them out so easily with their 37mm gun!!!

That comic, plus Sgt. Rock and Fury's Howling Commandos were a mainstay of my youth.

PS..also The Unknown Soldier.

The Haunted Tank, there's something that stayed locked in some small room at the back of my brain for the past half-century. Sgt. Rock and Sgt. Fury I remembered, but somehow The Haunted Tank had faded into the mist. I'm surprised to learn they kept that story going for so long....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haunted_Tank
chefchris
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 12:07 AM UTC
I think the tracks are still incorrect and are the ones from the old kit. Someone tell me if they see otherwise.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 12:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I think the tracks are still incorrect and are the ones from the old kit. Someone tell me if they see otherwise.


It's really hard to tell from the DSV photos, but if you look closely, the end connectors are bi-sected by the gap between the track pads, as they should be. This should mean the tracks are correct. The guide teeth/end connectors also appear a little more detailed than the old ones, but again, its hard to tell from the photos. The tab-part that connects the track is entirely new. So it appears they corrected the track. After the years of criticism for the old kit, I doubt Tamiya would make that same mistake twice. This is definitely an all-new kit.
VR, Russ
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 04:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Good to hear the idler's fine.
Can the welded rear end be made into a cast one with just sanding the bend of the welded piece into a curve?

welded
http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/jeremy_wee/m3_stuart/

cast (page 4)
https://www.net-maquettes.com/pictures/m3a1-stuart-walkaround/?afg428_page_id=4#afg-428


Neither was a casting. The first design used two plates, the later design used one formed plate.

The curve of the formed plate is inside the apex of the separate plates, so what you are describing would break through. You are better off removing the two cowl deck pieces, reshaping the sides, forming a piece of sheet to match, and adding the needed details. Note that the two flat plates were riveted together and held in by screws through the side plates while the formed plate was attached by screws going through it and the side plates were smooth.

Or wait for the inevitable aftermarket.

KL
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 05:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The "tunnel" for the drive line is way to high for any turret basket. In addition, the seats for the gunner/TC have frames on either side.


The driveshaft height did not change between the M3 and M3A1. It couldn't, without altering the geometry of the engine to the transmission, *significantly*. The engine end of the driveshaft was 22-3/8 above the floor at the rear and 16-7/8 at the front, and the horizontal length was 50 inches. That applied to the M3, M3A1, and M3A3, all with the Wright gasoline engine.

What's probably fooling you is the belief that the crew had to be able to stand up in the basket. They couldn't. The height from the basket floor to the inside of the turret roof was only about 46 inches.

KL
warmonger
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 08:09 AM UTC
In the build up photos they look right and other reports have stated that the tracks were new, and that Tamiya corrected the tracks to what they should be.
Bravo1102
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 09:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I believe that the title was " The Haunted Tank". It was amazing how every German tank they ran across was a Tiger..and knocked them out so easily with their 37mm gun!!!

That comic, plus Sgt. Rock and Fury's Howling Commandos were a mainstay of my youth.

PS..also The Unknown Soldier.

The Haunted Tank, there's something that stayed locked in some small room at the back of my brain for the past half-century. Sgt. Rock and Sgt. Fury I remembered, but somehow The Haunted Tank had faded into the mist. I'm surprised to learn they kept that story going for so long....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haunted_Tank

The Stuart was only one of several tanks the crew used. In comic book logic a 37mm can knock out a Tiger so long as a General's ghost assists. The writer and artist noted that in the letters section more than once. Some artists did other tanks, one wanted to do even proper paint schemes but the rigid four color printing didn't allow for it at the time.
I remember them going to Italy where they ran into a Elefant and it actually was specifically noted as Italy because Elefants didn't serve in France.
But Joe Kubert was the artist where every German tank was a Tiger or Tigerish in the mode of 1960s model box tops. And they always had the drum cupola and fiefel air cleaners too-- and occasionally the British First Army badge because back in the day people thought it was a German insignia.

I know entirely too much about this, but then I once built the Haunted Tank and I do create comics.
Mrclark7
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 10:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I believe that the title was " The Haunted Tank". It was amazing how every German tank they ran across was a Tiger..and knocked them out so easily with their 37mm gun!!!

That comic, plus Sgt. Rock and Fury's Howling Commandos were a mainstay of my youth.

PS..also The Unknown Soldier.

The Haunted Tank, there's something that stayed locked in some small room at the back of my brain for the past half-century. Sgt. Rock and Sgt. Fury I remembered, but somehow The Haunted Tank had faded into the mist. I'm surprised to learn they kept that story going for so long....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haunted_Tank

The Stuart was only one of several tanks the crew used. In comic book logic a 37mm can knock out a Tiger so long as a General's ghost assists. The writer and artist noted that in the letters section more than once. Some artists did other tanks, one wanted to do even proper paint schemes but the rigid four color printing didn't allow for it at the time.
I remember them going to Italy where they ran into a Elefant and it actually was specifically noted as Italy because Elefants didn't serve in France.
But Joe Kubert was the artist where every German tank was a Tiger or Tigerish in the mode of 1960s model box tops. And they always had the drum cupola and fiefel air cleaners too-- and occasionally the British First Army badge because back in the day people thought it was a German insignia.

I know entirely too much about this, but then I once built the Haunted Tank and I do create comics.


I regret letting go of all my G.I Combat and Sgt. Rock issues.
 _GOTOTOP