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SS using jackboots in Normandy?
Hohenstaufen
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: December 13, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - 06:15 AM GMT+7
I remember this diorama and know the original film sequence well. It is an excellent interpretation in model form of the sequence.
jrutman
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - 05:49 AM GMT+7
I found pics of my old old dio for reference. It is a copy of a famous series of pics from Normandy. Notice the marching boots.



Vierville
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Posted: Saturday, February 17, 2018 - 10:45 AM GMT+7
Thanks Steve...very interesting and informative post!

Hohenstaufen
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Posted: Saturday, February 17, 2018 - 12:53 AM GMT+7
I must have seen this movie a hundred times. That particular character is an officer though. Since officers wore riding boots and bought all their own clothing, getting an allowance, rather than being kitted out by the unit as the rank and file were, it is not at all unusual to see riding breeches and riding boots worn even at the end of the war in Europe. Some officers bought enlisted mens jackets and trousers from the stores to wear in the field, adding their own insignia. As the war progressed, more and more officers were promoted from the ranks so there was more of a crossover of kit between enlisted and officer ranks. This was particularly true of the Waffen SS.The German system required officers to serve in the ranks first before being promoted Fahnrich and Oberfahnrich(Ensign)in Das Heer, or Junker, Oberjunker and Standartenoberjunker (Cadet Corporal,Sergeant and Warrant Officer) in the SS. It was not uncommon for platoon commanders to be trainee officers of this type, as they had to serve a period as a Cadet officer before being promoted Leutnant or Untersturmfuhrer.
From the point of insignia, officer cadets wore the insignia of their substantive rank, with two braids formed of NCO's tresse at the root of the shoulder strap. Senior NCO cadets (substantive Oberfeldwebel or Hauptfeldwebel, or Standartenoberjunker in the SS)could wear officers accessories, e.g. the silver cap cords, and silver edging to the NCO's collar patches in the SS.
amoz02t
#192
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Posted: Friday, February 16, 2018 - 10:35 AM GMT+7
From the movie "The Longest Day"...
jrutman
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Posted: Friday, February 16, 2018 - 03:07 AM GMT+7
Yes,it is very cool to see Ron here. Very cool !!
J
Vierville
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Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 - 08:21 AM GMT+7
Hi guys.

I'm honoured and very grateful to have access to your advice, Jerry and Ron.

Thank you for the help!
RonV
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Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 - 07:03 AM GMT+7
A quick look through my refs confirm that marching boots were certainly evident in W-SS units in Normandy. While it does tend to confirm that these were predominantly worn by "old hands", there were more than a few exceptions including young members of HJ division. Ankle boots and gaiters were the most common footwear but the figure set you ask about would not be out of place for Normandy; it just would not be typical.
FWIW,
Ron Volstad
jrutman
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Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 - 02:23 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Thanks Steve, Jerry, Biggles and Paul! I really appreciate the advice and explanation.

Sorry for the incorrect terminology there...I've learned something new now!

I've never seen photos of SS men in Normandy wearing marching boots but could this be because early on it was just the 12th and 17th SS which were both 'new' units?


This is really helpful because now in the interests of better accuracy I will use the figures together but the ones with marching boots will be marked as officers and I will depict the ones wearing short boots and gaiters as enlisted men.

Thanks as always!




I think you have fallen victim to one of the myths of the war. Marching boots were worn by many guys right up to the end,if they were issued them,they kept them and kept wearing them. The Cadre of NCOs Officers and specialist troops that started the 12SS all came from the 1SS LAH as so many of these old hands had marching boots. The cadre of the 17SS would be the same,just not from LAH. In fact all of the Heer and SS units were in the same boat. The older guys still had the older boots and the new guys the low boots and gaiters.
I can't post the pics I have of the 12SS wearing the marching boots because they remain locked in Photobucket jail.
J
Vierville
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Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 05:15 AM GMT+7
Thanks Steve, Jerry, Biggles and Paul! I really appreciate the advice and explanation.

Sorry for the incorrect terminology there...I've learned something new now!

I've never seen photos of SS men in Normandy wearing marching boots but could this be because early on it was just the 12th and 17th SS which were both 'new' units?


This is really helpful because now in the interests of better accuracy I will use the figures together but the ones with marching boots will be marked as officers and I will depict the ones wearing short boots and gaiters as enlisted men.

Thanks as always!
Wierdy
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Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 04:30 AM GMT+7
Elite troops, of which WSS divisions were a part of, kept using marching boots for their personnel until late autumn 1943. Later in the war there was a period when privates were supplied with short boots and gaiters while NCOs were still wearing marching boots. Officers wore jackboots until the very end of the war. We do not take into consideration mountain troops, paratroopers and tank/AFV crews here.
Biggles2
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Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 03:42 AM GMT+7
Apparently the marching boots were made of a higher quality leather, and veteran troops hung on to them as long as possible (even taking them from dead soldiers) because they were more comfortable than the low boots, which were made of cheaper leather, and were stiff.
jrutman
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Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 02:32 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Mike,
It's not a problem. Although by 1944 new recruits received only the short lace up boots and gaiters, veterans hung onto their marching boots (not actual jackboots - correctly jackboots are worn by the Household Cavalry on horseback, the application of the name jackboots to German WW2 boots has always been incorrect) as long as they could. Pre-war the shafts of the marching boots were taller, almost to the knee, but due to shortages the shaft steadily reduced during the course of the war. There are numerous late war pictures of SS troops in "Pea" Camo wearing the marching boots, I can think of several around Arnhem area. There is a very famous picture of a dead grenadier on Nijmegen Bridge. He is wearing the camo smock, "Pea" trousers and marching boots.




Ditto ! I did a vignette several years ago showing members of the engineer Bn of the 12SS after being captured,based from a famous photo. They were almost all wearing marching boots. And this was in June 44 in Normandy.
J
Hohenstaufen
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Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 12:57 AM GMT+7
Mike,
It's not a problem. Although by 1944 new recruits received only the short lace up boots and gaiters, veterans hung onto their marching boots (not actual jackboots - correctly jackboots are worn by the Household Cavalry on horseback, the application of the name jackboots to German WW2 boots has always been incorrect) as long as they could. Pre-war the shafts of the marching boots were taller, almost to the knee, but due to shortages the shaft steadily reduced during the course of the war. There are numerous late war pictures of SS troops in "Pea" Camo wearing the marching boots, I can think of several around Arnhem area. There is a very famous picture of a dead grenadier on Nijmegen Bridge. He is wearing the camo smock, "Pea" trousers and marching boots.
Grauwolf
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 - 11:09 AM GMT+7
Renowned illustrator, Ron Volstad, who does artwork for Dragon figures, has
depicted various SS figures in the 1944 period as wearing a mix of
short boots and gaiters as well as jackboots.

So I would be inclined to say yes.

Cheers,
Joe
Vierville
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 - 07:52 AM GMT+7
Hi guys. I have the Dragon 6159 set (Panzergrenadiers, LAH Kursk 1943) in which there are four excellent grenadier figures, but they all wear jackboots.

By 1944 in Normandy, I believe the SS grenadiers were all equipped with short boots and gaiters?

I want to use them in a Normandy diorama, but just wanted to ask if the jackboots would be totally inaccurate? I haven't managed to find any photos from Normandy where SS panzergrenadiers wear jackboots but would really appreciate any advice.

Thanks!