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For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Monogram sticker shock.
kf8xo
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Michigan, United States
Joined: February 19, 2002
KitMaker: 113 posts
Armorama: 106 posts
Posted: Monday, January 15, 2018 - 09:32 AM UTC

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has anyone noticed the Revell Sherman they are trying to sell there now?



I have seen the old Monogram "Screaming Mimi" Calliope Sherman.



i like that one, except it being 1/32. i know, finiky.



Never bothered me, I cut my teeth on those old Monogram kits. Shep Paine was my "Elmer" (ham term).
TopSmith
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Washington, United States
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,007 posts
Armorama: 953 posts
Posted: Monday, January 15, 2018 - 10:22 AM UTC
Paul, it is difficult to imagine the pay differences between the US and the Ukraine. I couldn't imagine ever buying a kit that costs a weeks salery. It makes my grumble irrelevent.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 3,530 posts
Armorama: 3,062 posts
Posted: Monday, January 15, 2018 - 01:26 PM UTC
"Bureau of Labor Statistics reported a median personal income of $865 weekly for all full-time workers in 2017"
https://www.google.se/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiZ_K_Pg9zYAhUIPFAKHR1JAdkQFggwMAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FPersonal_income_in_the_United_States&usg=AOvVaw0lirKZbggdnhTArt6GOo2S

"The average wage country-wide in July 2017 was USD 276 (7,339 Ukrainian hryvnia). Statistics show that except for the capital, average monthly salaries in all locations (including Kiev region) didn't exceed USD 300."
https://www.google.se/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwimrLnpg9zYAhUJZVAKHceDBeAQFggxMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.elenasmodels.com%2Fen%2Fwages-ukraine-updated-2017-statistics%2F&usg=AOvVaw3qhyq2NIIYk5fXMJElr2l7

Note the difference between weekly (US) and monthly (Ukraine) salaries.
Statistics are only as reliable as the underlying data and comparing salaries doesn't show the percentage of the population who actually has a job and gets paid for it.
"The U.S Bureau of the Census has the annual real median personal income at $31,099 in 2016."
https://www.google.se/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiZ_K_Pg9zYAhUIPFAKHR1JAdkQFggwMAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FPersonal_income_in_the_United_States&usg=AOvVaw0lirKZbggdnhTArt6GOo2S
Hmm, 31099 divided by 52 is $598 but that is the median counted on the total number of US citizens, everyone ...
The median isn't affected by a few high incomes since it is the single value in the centre of the group (median of 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 50, 100, 150 is 2 while the average is over 28). The John or Jane Doe in the US who is in the middle of over 320 million US citizens, including thos with no salary at all, earns two Ukrainian monthly salaries each week ....

The cost of living also has to be considered:
"For a native Ukrainian, the average salary is surprisingly low by Western standards. It can vary between $200-$400 per month.
However, the cost of living is also very low compared to the West. I’ve known people in Kyiv who pay somewhere in the region of $100 for their apartment. A week’s groceries are somewhere in the region of $5–$10. Also, eating out in a fairly high class restaurant will not set you back much, I once had 3 courses in a 5 star bistro for less than $10."
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-salary-in-Ukraine-in-2017

One weeks groceries for one person here in Stockholm is certainly more than 10 or even 15 USD.
USD 10 gets you a simple canteen lunch, not 3 courses in a fancy place ...

The interesting thing to compare is how much there is left of the salary after all the necessary costs have been paid.
Earning $1000 weekly with weekly living costs of $990 leaves 10 bucks for all the other stuff. A wage of $100 weekly with living costs of $80 leaves 20 bucks for the other stuff.
Who has got the largest "free" spending power? The person with the $1000 weekly or the one with $100?
Only an example since I do not have the hard facts for costs of living in the US or the Ukraine, not even the ones for Sweden

/ Robin
Wierdy
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Ukraine / Україна
Joined: January 26, 2010
KitMaker: 518 posts
Armorama: 501 posts
Posted: Monday, January 15, 2018 - 04:53 PM UTC
OK, let's compare something particular.
I pay about 100 USD per month for heating alone.
One litre of gas/petrol costs 1.05 to 1.25 USD.
Chicken fillet costs about 3 USD per kilo,
10 eggs at one dollar or more.
A pair of sneakers at 50-75 USD.
And here is an example of what they ask for kits:
http://old.hobby.dn.ua/sbornye-modeli-voennaya-tehnika-c-374_81.html?current_page=1&f_category=81&f_manufacturer=342&f_price2=100000&items_per_page=20&scale_id=3
And that is one of the cheapest stores here...
Bravo1102
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,085 posts
Armorama: 1,792 posts
Posted: Monday, January 15, 2018 - 05:38 PM UTC

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has anyone noticed the Revell Sherman they are trying to sell there now?



I have seen the old Monogram "Screaming Mimi" Calliope Sherman.



i like that one, except it being 1/32. i know, finiky.



He's referring to the nostalgia release of the 1950s era Revell Sherman. The one that mixes an HVSS suspension with a M4A1 late cast hull, a 75mm turret and a M4A3 engine deck. It's aimed at the guy who bought and built the Monogram halftracks. Nostalgia and not caring about them being little more than toys. It's also a simple build for those starting out. I'm hoping for Revell's horrible mutant T-34 to be reissued. Nostalgia.

And I just finished a trio of Monogram 1/32 Sherman's. Love those kits. More nostalgia or a decent low prices alternative. At least they can be worked with if you are seriously into updating the kit. But I just couldnt bring myself to get the 1/32 Pzkpfw IV. I got the Dragon Pz.bef IV.ausf J which is what the Monogram kit is supposed to be.
Bravo1102
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,085 posts
Armorama: 1,792 posts
Posted: Monday, January 15, 2018 - 05:54 PM UTC
As for median income and the like; the US is the land of easy credit. Disposable income? Let's just get out the credit card...

I so didn't mean to run up the bill like that, honest. I was shopping for deals...
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 3,530 posts
Armorama: 3,062 posts
Posted: Monday, January 15, 2018 - 06:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

OK, let's compare something particular.
I pay about 100 USD per month for heating alone.
One litre of gas/petrol costs 1.05 to 1.25 USD.
Chicken fillet costs about 3 USD per kilo,
10 eggs at one dollar or more.
A pair of sneakers at 50-75 USD.
And here is an example of what they ask for kits:
http://old.hobby.dn.ua/sbornye-modeli-voennaya-tehnika-c-374_81.html?current_page=1&f_category=81&f_manufacturer=342&f_price2=100000&items_per_page=20&scale_id=3
And that is one of the cheapest stores here...



Thanks for the numbers, it's always easier to put things into the correct perspective with actual numbers.
12 to 22 kg's of chicken filet for one kit ......
That's a lot of chicken!
The prices seem almost like Swedish prices, the chicken here is 4-5 USD per kg and I can't comment on the heating since it is included in my rent so I don't see the numbers.
/ Robin
Recon
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Wisconsin, United States
Joined: October 19, 2002
KitMaker: 1,556 posts
Armorama: 755 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 - 12:24 AM UTC
I was just at Hobby Lobby and the monogram armour was priced at $24.99 and $29.99. Use the 40% off coupons and the kits are between $15 and $20.

Mike
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,135 posts
Armorama: 2,179 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 - 06:11 AM UTC
Huh!? I bought my Monogram Pzr IV at Hobby Lobby for less than $20 back in the Fall. Maybe the wrong sticker was on it?
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 1,858 posts
Armorama: 923 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 - 06:24 AM UTC

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Huh!? I bought my Monogram Pzr IV at Hobby Lobby for less than $20 back in the Fall. Maybe the wrong sticker was on it?



No-- I think you had the right sticker, but I live in the same area as Greg (Top Smith) and have seen prices vary at the two Hobby Lobby's I visit occasionally. I never buy anything at them without the 40% coupon, but I've noted one of them in particular seems to have some price discrepancies--maybe because of the store location? I've noted this at Michael's too. I think maybe it's the store manager or a department manager trying to squeeze a little more out of certain items, or not paying attention. A few years ago I bought the Minicraft PB5Y for about $47 with the coupon, and saw the same kit later at another Hobby Lobby for $39 with the coupon. Had the same thing happen with the AMT "Man in Space Kit" last year-- there was about an $8.00 difference-- but then again, they were closing out the kit.
VR, Russ
urumomo
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Texas, United States
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
Armorama: 667 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 - 06:46 AM UTC
Another thing about Hobby Lobby is they will have the same item priced differently in different areas of the store .
Like an Excel hobby knife for 4.99 by the plastic kits , but the same knife for 3.99 over by the scales and templates etc etc .
So -
You see they still use pricing guns and items are rung up by price and dept , they can't scan anything to find the price --- how they manage inventory of what's coming and going is beyond me
TopSmith
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Washington, United States
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,007 posts
Armorama: 953 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 - 07:51 AM UTC
The Hobby Lobby That had the Panzer 4 at $49.95 had the Monogram Patton for $20 something. So maybe it was a miss pricing. I did look and all the Panzer 4's were at the incorrect price. Russ, it was the one in Lakewood.
Bravo1102
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,085 posts
Armorama: 1,792 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 - 09:58 AM UTC

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The Hobby Lobby That had the Panzer 4 at $49.95 had the Monogram Patton for $20 something. So maybe it was a miss pricing. I did look and all the Panzer 4's were at the incorrect price. Russ, it was the one in Lakewood.


I saw that happen back when I was in retail. An item would come in with the wrong invoice price and you have to put it out at that price and request a price adjustment. As for different pricing in different departments-- in large retailers that can be because of different buyers. One buyer gets an accessory for his department for a better price point. It happens. It'd be up to a department manager to notice and get a price adjustment so all departments have the same item for the same price.

But people just don't pay attention to detail or retail for that matter.
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 1,858 posts
Armorama: 923 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 - 10:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The Hobby Lobby That had the Panzer 4 at $49.95 had the Monogram Patton for $20 something. So maybe it was a miss pricing. I did look and all the Panzer 4's were at the incorrect price. Russ, it was the one in Lakewood.



Greg-- hmm-- I've found the one in Tacoma to be the offending one the most often, but I have noticed differences at Lakewood too. But it goes to show they have variances from store to store. I'm going to try the Federal Way Hobby Lobby some day and see what thier prices are like.
VR, Russ
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 3,530 posts
Armorama: 3,062 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 - 02:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text


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The Hobby Lobby That had the Panzer 4 at $49.95 had the Monogram Patton for $20 something. So maybe it was a miss pricing. I did look and all the Panzer 4's were at the incorrect price. Russ, it was the one in Lakewood.



Greg-- hmm-- I've found the one in Tacoma to be the offending one the most often, but I have noticed differences at Lakewood too. But it goes to show they have variances from store to store. I'm going to try the Federal Way Hobby Lobby some day and see what thier prices are like.
VR, Russ



How much time and petrol would you spend on checking for the best price in all these stores?
Just curious ...
/ Robin
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 1,858 posts
Armorama: 923 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 - 10:32 PM UTC
Robin,
I never go to any LHS without running errands to other places. In this case I'm about 10 miles from one store, 6 from another, and the last (the Federal Way store) I'm about 18 miles from. But for me, the first two stores are directly on the path to my local medical care, my wife's hair salon, (I drop her there and I go elsewhere for a couple hours) and the occasional restaurant or other store we might visit. Hobby Lobby is a massive "box store" for all kinds of hobby items from floral arranging to sewing, to oil painting, all under one roof, so if a family member is interested in something else, it's a convenient stop. I do have three very well stocked LHS within about 25 miles, and I'll occasionally visit them, more for conversing with other modelers, but often for sales-- they all frequently run 20% and 50% off sales for many items. But fortunately for me, all these shops are on the way to someplace else! By the way, I knew Al Superczynski-- who I met at one of those local hobby shops a few years before he passed away.
VR, Russ
Vierville
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Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: April 05, 2014
KitMaker: 317 posts
Armorama: 305 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 02:32 AM UTC
For me, the cost of the model is not the issue, it's the shipping that kills me.

One decent Dragon or Rye Field model costs maybe 4hrs work earnings but the shipping is often double or triple the cost of the model. South Africa has an almost nonexistant postal system (parcels take between 4 months and 9 months to arrive even if sent by international registeted express mail) so the likes of UPS or FedEx are the only way of making sure your order will arrive...

LHSs are OK here but have a very poor selection of kits. Supplies such as paints and weathering materials can be bought here but at a very high price.

urumomo
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Texas, United States
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
Armorama: 667 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 02:46 AM UTC

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(parcels take between 4 months and 9 months to arrive even if sent by international registeted express mail)




Dude !
What ??!
Vierville
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Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: April 05, 2014
KitMaker: 317 posts
Armorama: 305 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 03:33 AM UTC
I rather generously did not mention that if your parcel does not arrive after about 9 months, you can consider it lost forever...
Removed by original poster on 01/17/18 - 22:37:33 (GMT).
urumomo
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Texas, United States
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
Armorama: 667 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 03:41 AM UTC
I think the mail to you ran faster in the 19th century - no ?
Surprised you have internet :-)
Wierdy
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Ukraine / Україна
Joined: January 26, 2010
KitMaker: 518 posts
Armorama: 501 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 03:58 AM UTC
Some people just like whining thinking they don't have enough services, too high prices or insufficient attitude. This world is not the same: for me the prices in the US are ridiculously low in comparison to what people earn. Shipping speed is in the same rank. In some areas receiving one parcel out of five is a good luck. Think about it and you will have more positive emotions.
d6mst0
#453
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Texas, United States
Joined: August 28, 2016
KitMaker: 549 posts
Armorama: 339 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 03:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I was at Hobby Lobby today and saw a Monogram Pzkfw IV. I thought it might be a fun build. It has been 40 years sence I last built a Monogram tank. Wow, it was the same price as Tamiya's Easy Eight Sherman. I was thinking it was in the 20's, not $50. I ended up leaving it on the shelf. I have noticed that kit prices have moved up. Some of the Dragon kits are at the $80 mark and others like Tiger Models are more. Ugh.



Wow your Hobby Lobby has Dragon kits! The one by my house does not. The H.L. store only sells Revel and Tamiya kits and maybe a few Monogram and Academy kits. Most of those are from 1970's castings.
TopSmith
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Washington, United States
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,007 posts
Armorama: 953 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 06:13 AM UTC
Paul, I totally agree with you and I am as guilty as most others in not appreciating what we have and what others are missing.

Mark, I meant model kits in general cost more when I mentioned Dragon and Tiger Models, not that HL carried them.
Bravo1102
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,085 posts
Armorama: 1,792 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 06:39 AM UTC
Wasn't that long ago when all packages took six to eight weeks for delivery and overseas considerably longer. Ordering something from Asia meant waiting for a slow boat and back and forth with Eastern Europe was measured in months.

We take so much for granted. But then back in those days toy stores carried Tamiya, each local discount store had an entire aisle of plastic models and I had three or four LHS to choose from. Now it's all internet and mail order. I understand so well how much we need to be grateful for.