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Armor/AFV: IDF [Israeli Defense Forces]
Armor and AFVs of the IDF army from 1947-today.
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Merkava I Tamiya vs. Takom
HermannB
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Bayern, Germany
Joined: October 14, 2008
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Posted: Thursday, December 21, 2017 - 11:25 AM UTC
I found a Tamiya Merkava in my stash. With the Takom release, I wonder If I shall kep the kit?
CowboyfromHell
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Illinois, United States
Joined: September 18, 2014
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Posted: Thursday, December 21, 2017 - 12:36 PM UTC
once saw comparison pictures from FB showing that the Tamiya's hull is remarkably shorter than the Takom's.
ReluctantRenegade
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Wien, Austria
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Posted: Thursday, December 21, 2017 - 01:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I found a Tamiya Merkava in my stash. With the Takom release, I wonder If I shall kep the kit?



Well, you should wait for proper reviews of the Takom kit before getting rid of the 30 years old Tamiya offering. How much these kits sell for, anyway? You might as well keep it. Who knows, maybe youll end up replacing some incorrect Takom parts with Tamiya ones...
GTDeath13
#481
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Attica, Greece / Ελλάδα
Joined: June 12, 2015
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Posted: Thursday, December 21, 2017 - 03:09 PM UTC
As far as accuracy is concerned the Tamiya kit is way worse than the Takom kit.

It needs lots of detailing and corrections to get a fairly accurate kit, since there was not much information available about Merkavas when it was released.

But it is fairly simple to build and the fit is really nice.

Do you keep the Tamiya kit? It depends on what you want to do. I got both Takom kits but still kept my Tamiya (with Eduard pe set, Friul tracks, PanzerArt wheels and some other extras). It will propably be way harder to build the Tamiya, but some times it is the effort that counts...
RobinNilsson
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Thursday, December 21, 2017 - 04:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I found a Tamiya Merkava in my stash. With the Takom release, I wonder If I shall kep the kit?



Don't know if it is possible to sell it.
Putting in the trash bin is an awful waste.
Keep it for possible spare parts or for painting/weathering experiments.

Maybe someone could start a campaign for superseded kits,
all those kits that have now been replaced by something better.
Expensive resin kits that are now "worthless" because there is a better, or at least a lot easier to build, styrene kit.
Old styrene kits replaced by new, Dragons T-72's for instance.
The theme or gimmick should be that both kits shall be built in parallell, started but not finished for the old kit is acceptable.
/ Robin
That Merkava
GaryKato
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California, United States
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Posted: Thursday, December 21, 2017 - 06:07 PM UTC
I am currently building one for the Unfinished Business 2017 campaign. I probably won't make and will roll it over to the next campaign.

If you absolutely must have an exact replica, as someone said, wait for the reviews to come out then make your decision. However, the Tamiya kit looks like a Merkava. The only real problem so far is the slight gap between the upper and lower turret. The main gun barrel is split in two but seems to fit well. You can probably find an aftermarket metal barrel if you don't want to hassle with it.

My friends don't walk around with a micrometer and pictures of every detail of the Merkava in their head so as long as it looks like one, I'm fine with it.
Tojo72
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Posted: Thursday, December 21, 2017 - 07:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I am currently building one for the Unfinished Business 2017 campaign. I probably won't make and will roll it over to the next campaign.

If you absolutely must have an exact replica, as someone said, wait for the reviews to come out then make your decision. However, the Tamiya kit looks like a Merkava. The only real problem so far is the slight gap between the upper and lower turret. The main gun barrel is split in two but seems to fit well. You can probably find an aftermarket metal barrel if you don't want to hassle with it.

My friends don't walk around with a micrometer and pictures of every detail of the Merkava in their head so as long as it looks like one, I'm fine with it.



Well said
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Thursday, December 21, 2017 - 08:26 PM UTC

Quoted Text

My friends don't walk around with a micrometer and pictures of every detail of the Merkava in their head so as long as it looks like one, I'm fine with it.



Yeah, but once it is shown that a particular kit is way off dimensionally, whether you have a micrometer or not, that kit never "looks like one" to you again.

And logically, taking a perfect scale representation and one of those Lego or Egg tanks, everyone can agree that one looks the part and one doesn't, even at arm's length. The transition between does and doesn't happens along a line between the perfect repro and the caricature, and is at different points for everyone. In my experience, the "rivet counters" argue where that transition point is and why, while the "looks like it to me-ers" often seem spitefully contrarian and come across as arguing that the transition point doesn't exist at all.

KL
Bravo1102
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Posted: Thursday, December 21, 2017 - 09:00 PM UTC
It's like this: looks good enough unless you compare it to any image of the real thing. Doing that can bring tears to my eyes.

But I enjoyed building the model. So what part of the whole experience matters most? Capturing every detail and nuance of the real thing or building a model that captures the impression of the real Thing?

Guess you could call me an "expressionist" model builder. It doesn't have to have every detail but express my impression of the essence of the thing.

But some kits just can't be compared to the real thing. (The stout, squished look of the Tamiya Merkava is sadly one)
ArtyG37B
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: August 13, 2009
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Posted: Thursday, December 21, 2017 - 09:35 PM UTC
Maybe take a look at this thread;
http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=262805#2225708
ivanhoe6
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Posted: Thursday, December 21, 2017 - 11:18 PM UTC
HH, old or bad kits I use them to experiment with painting or other techniques. OR, firecrackers !
Have a great Christmas !
Das_Abteilung
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United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, December 22, 2017 - 02:11 AM UTC
IIRC the Tamiya offering is based on a prototype (possibly the one now at Latrun), which might explain the dimensional differences. Or they just got it wrong.

You could use it as a donor kit for one of the Legend conversions, although if those are dimensioned for the Tamiya hull they may also have the same dimensional faults. But for the price of one of those you might as well buy the Takom kit.

By the time you've bought some after-market replacement parts to improve the Tamiya kit you will again be approaching the cost of a Takom kit.

Assuming that it might be the actual vehicle from Latrun, you could model it as that vehicle at the museum with some visitor figures.
junglejim
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: February 18, 2003
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Posted: Friday, December 22, 2017 - 10:05 AM UTC
I've been trying to find it in one the Facebook groups where I saw it, but someone had measured up one of the museum Mk1 Hybrids and it turned out the Takom kit was closer to being the right size. Next time you're at Munster you can confirm Hermann?

Jim
jps
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Wisconsin, United States
Joined: February 06, 2006
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Posted: Friday, December 22, 2017 - 04:24 PM UTC
The owner of DEF models was the gentleman who measured the Merkava, he gave reference points, I believe he knows how to use a tape measure, I am good.

While we all know model companies have been known to screw the pooch, but to assume that the new kit is bad because it doesn't match the 30 year old kit which we (I) don't really know is correc is strange reasoning.

If you are building the kit the gap at the hull front may need to be fiddled with, the extra rings on the road wheels are a little odd and I really don't know which way they are supposed to be in, and the tow cables don't installed under the welded brackets. Enjoy the build it is miles ahead of the Tamiya kit and I hope to paint it before going back to work after Christmas.
junglejim
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Posted: Saturday, December 23, 2017 - 07:07 AM UTC
Thanks Dave, yes, that was it!



Jim
18Bravo
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - 05:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I found a Tamiya Merkava in my stash. With the Takom release, I wonder If I shall kep the kit?



Only one? Consider yourself lucky.



The other three MkI's and another MKII languish in the garage, having been donor kits for older Tamiya Centurions a long time ago - tow hooks, tow cable ends, shaved off stowage latches, etc., but I wasn't going to ask my wife to move motorcycles out of the way just to get a shot. I'm thinking of using the turrets as the basis of a War of the Worlds dio someday, with Roco Leopards and M113's surrounding the "spaceships."
rfbaer
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Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - 10:50 PM UTC
Looks like my stash!
MassimoTessitori
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Italy
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Posted: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 - 05:25 PM UTC
I think that an old kit worths only if one wants to make a quick build, without spending money for aftermarket, and he is happy with this.
If one buys an old cheap model with the idea to bring it up to the level of a modern one by buying aftermarket items, it will cost much more in total than buying a modern kit and build it out of the box.
18Bravo
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Posted: Friday, December 29, 2017 - 06:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Looks like my stash!



Looks like she left one out - hopefully it's not in your stash as well:



Or maybe that was the modeling gods trying to steer us away from the Academy Mk III kit. It probably explains why I have a stack of different Legend turrets for the thing, and even a (gasp) AEF Designs upgrade for it. Yes, it is as bad as you are probably imagining it to be.

"I think that an old kit worths only if one wants to make a quick build, without spending money for aftermarket, and he is happy with this.
If one buys an old cheap model with the idea to bring it up to the level of a modern one by buying aftermarket items, it will cost much more in total than buying a modern kit and build it out of the box."


Massimo, I will have to respectfully disagree here. This kit, as with many that have been disparaged far worse, can be made into a very fine build without a whole lot of money. Here are some of the basics: (Note: Many things are being redone at some point, hence missing mud flaps, MG's, etc...)

Work the tow hooks (cut out the recess with a no. 11 blade) and give it a little cast texture. I like to do this with any build that doesn't have them as separate pieces. There's also s trip there with rivets for the mud flaps. Surely bogarted from some other leftover PE fret.


Cut the holes in the sprocket. Newer kits have this feature:


Cut holes in the idlers as well:


MV lenses are not free, but they won't break the bank either. Any kit looks better with them as opposed to painted on lenses:


A few things going on here - 14 gauge needles for the cylindrical mounts on the shovel handle, casting numbers added to the side of the turret, some big towing shackles from some old Soviet donor kit, and bits of Evergreen strip to finish out the mising detail on the sponson hinges:


And a few more things going on here - more cast numbers on top of the turret, stowage bin handles added, and most importantly, bin cover torsion springs, with the associated mounting points. Also note thinned and drilled out Uzi mount:


Another detail the kit missed, but easily added from the spares box - the fuel can rack, used mostly as a place to mount a PRC-77:


I did this kit over twenty years ago, before there was any PE for it that I knew of. A sheet of model railroad PE had just the right pattern, and cost very little. Note also the catch for the driver's hatch at the lower left:




Reworked fire extinguisher handle, And there's an exhaust pipe in there as well. This will certainly get repainted during the refit.


And of course as you've seen throughout, I added non-skid texture. Yes, in spite of what some have said, the Mk I (not just the hybrid) had it. That's why I modeled it.

Again, these are just basic things you can do to make this kit a keeper.
jps
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Wisconsin, United States
Joined: February 06, 2006
KitMaker: 110 posts
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Posted: Friday, December 29, 2017 - 08:26 AM UTC
Nice job on the old bird. For me my time has value too along ith the cost of upgrades. For me I prefer building the Takom kit BUT i do have the Tamiya with the "necessary" upgrades. I am in the early paintong stages on the Takom MK 1 and hope to put the IDF grey on her tomorrow.

BTW I would probably agree with your statement that all Merkava 1s had anti slip at some point in their lives but many went into Lebanon without it in 1982. Mine will not have anti slip or ball and chains.