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Armor/AFV: Vietnam
All things Vietnam
Hosted by Darren Baker
How bad IS Tamiya's M-113???
jphillips
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Arizona, United States
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 1,010 posts
Armorama: 742 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 06:17 AM UTC
I know the PAVN really hated those "Zippos." But I wonder if they used captured ones against the Chinese in 1979? And was this the last time flamethrower vehicles were used in combat?
jphillips
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Arizona, United States
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 1,010 posts
Armorama: 742 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 06:22 AM UTC
I've built both the Tamiya and Academy M-113s. Unless you're getting a really good price on the Tamiya, the Academy M113 is worth a few extra dollars because it comes with gun shields and a recoilless gun that can be used on technicals if the vehicle you're building doesn't call for them.
Jmarles
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: November 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,040 posts
Armorama: 870 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 06:31 AM UTC



Why did you remove the mud guards?
Did they collect too much mud and block the tracks or something?
Curious as h*ll
/ Robin[/quote]

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From what I understand they were usually removed due to mud fouling.
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 2,134 posts
Armorama: 1,080 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 06:48 AM UTC

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Why did you remove the mud guards?
Did they collect too much mud and block the tracks or something?
Curious as h*ll
/ Robin



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From what I understand they were usually removed due to mud fouling.[/quote]

This is true-- however, what folks are calling "mud guards" on the sides are not really that-- they are flotation panels. The side gaurds are rubber, and they trap air under the hull to increase buoyancy and flotation, which in turn allow as the track to propel the M113 forward in the amphibious mode. they were more trouble than they were worth in VN. However, in Germany in 1977, we had to have them on, or the track was marginally operational (circle X, which could be overridden by the Squadron XO's signature). I guess they expected us to do a lot more fording in Europe. The rear "mudgaurd" was hollow aluminum, and I don't believe the inside was supposed to be removed-- this formed a step for the crew.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,180 posts
Armorama: 1,149 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 11:57 AM UTC

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How come the inner shield on the rear mudguards are not present? -


Because it is approx. 40 years old kit?...

More puzzling is why the new AFV Club kit does not include them. Luckily they're easy to add.



Pawl;

When you got a brand new ACAV, one of the first things you did after filing the gas tank and checking oil was to remove all the mud guards. There was a pile of mud guards in Chu Lai that would have filled a rail road box car! You went from there to see the head dude at the Sea Bee shack for a roll of chain link fencing and a dozen engineers stakes. After that it was on to the Americal Main post PX for beer and soda.

gary



Why did you remove the mud guards?
Did they collect too much mud and block the tracks or something?
Curious as h*ll
/ Robin



Mud was the main reason, but it also allows you to check on the tracks easier. Plus the mud can make you throw a track a lot easier when it builds up. When breaking jungle the tracks will often get vegetation built up in them, and this can make it easier to throw a track. It's a lot easier to clean the crap out without the mud guards. Another very important thing about the mud guards that most don't notice is that the mud guards ever so slightly obstruct your vision when looking almost strait down. Not much, but enough to graze the fuse on a 105 round. You always drive exactly in the same foot print as the track in front of you. That way only the lead track breaks train, and they'll often be on foot out in front. On the otherhand blue crossings can be down right frightening. You can't see what's under you, and trust me they often leave surprise packages. crossings are shallow spots in a river that plotted on a map for future use. Yet if you've used it once, they'll know about it.

In the bush, everything get trashed rather quickly. If you broke jungle with the mud guards, they'd be gone in 48 hours. Literally ripped off. Look at the fenders on a 48 sometime, or the trim vane on the front of an ACAV. My base camp was about 2000 from the Hiep Duc Ridge Line. Nothing wheeled or tracked got past us, and even then it was twelve miles past road's end. You'd see parts from tanks a APC's along the side of the trails like it was a junk yard. I even came upon a junk Japanese steam roller once!
gary