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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
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Panda M1 Abrams- sprues
jwest21
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,024 posts
Armorama: 2,792 posts
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 10:21 AM GMT+7
My Panda M1 Abrams showed up today. Very low part count (excluding the tracks). Lots of molded on details as opposed to separate parts. The .50 sprue attachment point is really poor (see pics). 4 markings option- 3 in Forest green and 1 in MERDC. As for accuracy, I defer to the Abrams experts. Over all, I am underwhelmed.






HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 15,457 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 11:00 AM GMT+7
It looks pretty decent to me. A basic M1 was just that, pretty basic. It looks to have separate sprocket halves to represent the mud release holes, separate outer rings on the road wheels to represent the undercut, the loader's and TC's guns molded in two parts and with separate mounts, good details on the hull and underside, etc. I like what I see.
BootsDMS
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England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 288 posts
Armorama: 284 posts
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 11:28 AM GMT+7
Well, to be honest I could do with a low parts count after wrestling with some of, for example, Bronco's efforts.

I've been waiting for this kit to appear - a true Cold War game-changer.

I fully accept of course that some modellers prefer intricate details to the nth degree, but not this Callsign I'm afraid - although I appreciate that this may be a heresy (!) - any further details would be much appreciated.

Thanks in anticipation,

Brian
jwest21
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,024 posts
Armorama: 2,792 posts
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 11:56 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

It looks pretty decent to me. A basic M1 was just that, pretty basic. It looks to have separate sprocket halves to represent the mud release holes, separate outer rings on the road wheels to represent the undercut, the loader's and TC's guns molded in two parts and with separate mounts, good details on the hull and underside, etc. I like what I see.


Fit is fairly good so far, but there is some flash. Details do seem to be crisp, though. The design of the sprockets plus flash mean some extra work, but the result is pretty good.
jwest21
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,024 posts
Armorama: 2,792 posts
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 11:58 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Well, to be honest I could do with a low parts count after wrestling with some of, for example, Bronco's efforts.

I've been waiting for this kit to appear - a true Cold War game-changer.

I fully accept of course that some modellers prefer intricate details to the nth degree, but not this Callsign I'm afraid - although I appreciate that this may be a heresy (!) - any further details would be much appreciated.

Thanks in anticipation,

Brian

The kit minus the tracks could probably be completed in a day or two, honestly. The tracks are multipart, so they will take some work.
jwest21
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,024 posts
Armorama: 2,792 posts
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 12:28 PM GMT+7
Couple questions- would this have a no-slip pattern on it or was that added later. Also, would the periscopes have the anti-laser sheen to it or were they just regular armored glass? Thanks
Kenaicop
#384
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Nevada, United States
Joined: August 23, 2005
KitMaker: 959 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 12:33 PM GMT+7
Call me crazy, but I'm loving this. Gotta be better than the old Tamiya version. That .50 cal looks a little out of wack though
jwest21
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 16, 2006
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Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 12:36 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Call me crazy, but I'm loving this. Gotta be better than the old Tamiya version. That .50 cal looks a little out of wack though


Yeah, I am not sure if the sprue warped or what, but I don't think the barrel should look like that.
mikado
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Singapore / 新加坡
Joined: July 10, 2005
KitMaker: 310 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 01:14 PM GMT+7
Hi Gino,

Quick question to you... For M1A2...have you seen any of them in Nato 3 tone camo ?

I am going to get the new Tamiya 1/48 M1A2 and thinking of painting it in this scheme.

Does the vehicle follow a fix Camo pattern or is it different for different vehicle ?

jwest21
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,024 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 02:07 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Hi Gino,

Quick question to you... For M1A2...have you seen any of them in Nato 3 tone camo ?

I am going to get the new Tamiya 1/48 M1A2 and thinking of painting it in this scheme.

Does the vehicle follow a fix Camo pattern or is it different for different vehicle ?



The only M1A2s I have seen are the M1A2 SEP v.2. I think the Tamiya is just a plain M1A2, which were in Sand
WXerock
#450
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California, United States
Joined: July 19, 2015
KitMaker: 444 posts
Armorama: 441 posts
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 02:16 PM GMT+7
Mike, I can answer your questions on the M1A2. Yes, as the A2 is the standard U.S. Army tank it is painted in NATO three tone as well as desert tan. If I remember correctly I've read that spare parts come in NATO green. Yes the pattern is the same on every tank. Well, close to the same. The U.S. Military has a publication that shows the standard paint scheme for all vehicles. The NATO scheme has been the same since it was painted on the early M1 to the M1A2 SEP V2. I have the Sabot publication book on the M1A2. There are many photos in it of M1A2 and M1A2 SEP V2 tanks painted in either NATO or desert tan. Hope this helps.

Regards,

Eric
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,085 posts
Armorama: 1,054 posts
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 02:26 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Couple questions- would this have a no-slip pattern on it or was that added later. Also, would the periscopes have the anti-laser sheen to it or were they just regular armored glass? Thanks



Anti slip would start sometime after the first M1 IP's were starting to ship. We had an "IP" at work that didn't have the anti slip (out of Ft. Knox). I know they had it four or five months later. I can't remember the periscope, but think it did. It was painted a strait forest green with no markings on it.
gary
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,085 posts
Armorama: 1,054 posts
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 02:31 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Hi Gino,

Quick question to you... For M1A2...have you seen any of them in Nato 3 tone camo ?

I am going to get the new Tamiya 1/48 M1A2 and thinking of painting it in this scheme.

Does the vehicle follow a fix Camo pattern or is it different for different vehicle ?




on a visit to the Lima Tank Plant in Lima Ohio, there was a train load of brand new tanks loaded on rail cars. The camo patterns were identical on all tanks! I've never been inside their paint shop, but I'd say they were robotically painted. Remember saying to myself that they looked like a train load of snakes!
gary
jwest21
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,024 posts
Armorama: 2,792 posts
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 02:58 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Couple questions- would this have a no-slip pattern on it or was that added later. Also, would the periscopes have the anti-laser sheen to it or were they just regular armored glass? Thanks



Anti slip would start sometime after the first M1 IP's were starting to ship. We had an "IP" at work that didn't have the anti slip (out of Ft. Knox). I know they had it four or five months later. I can't remember the periscope, but think it did. It was painted a strait forest green with no markings on it.
gary


Thank you Gary

One more question- is the 105mm barrel really an oval shape or is it round- the kit one has a slightly ovoid cross-section
Bravo1102
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 1,520 posts
Armorama: 1,328 posts
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 03:07 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Couple questions- would this have a no-slip pattern on it or was that added later. Also, would the periscopes have the anti-laser sheen to it or were they just regular armored glass? Thanks



Anti slip would start sometime after the first M1 IP's were starting to ship. We had an "IP" at work that didn't have the anti slip (out of Ft. Knox). I know they had it four or five months later. I can't remember the periscope, but think it did. It was painted a strait forest green with no markings on it.
gary



Anti slip was sprayed on when M1 went for depot upgrades when they also got revised 50 caliber handles and bustle racks starting in the late 1980s.

M1 gunners sight from the start had the laser safe coating. M60A3 we got this little ESLR box with laser safe insert lenses. Fun dropping the gunner's primary sight mount to get those things in.

The driver's, loader's and TC's periscope were not laser safe until after 1990. The center driver's and loader's laser periscopes were issued around then.
mikado
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Singapore / 新加坡
Joined: July 10, 2005
KitMaker: 310 posts
Armorama: 235 posts
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 06:06 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Mike, I can answer your questions on the M1A2. Yes, as the A2 is the standard U.S. Army tank it is painted in NATO three tone as well as desert tan. If I remember correctly I've read that spare parts come in NATO green. Yes the pattern is the same on every tank. Well, close to the same. The U.S. Military has a publication that shows the standard paint scheme for all vehicles. The NATO scheme has been the same since it was painted on the early M1 to the M1A2 SEP V2. I have the Sabot publication book on the M1A2. There are many photos in it of M1A2 and M1A2 SEP V2 tanks painted in either NATO or desert tan. Hope this helps.

Regards,

Eric



Thanks for the reply. It helps
mikado
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Singapore / 新加坡
Joined: July 10, 2005
KitMaker: 310 posts
Armorama: 235 posts
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 06:08 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hi Gino,

Quick question to you... For M1A2...have you seen any of them in Nato 3 tone camo ?

I am going to get the new Tamiya 1/48 M1A2 and thinking of painting it in this scheme.

Does the vehicle follow a fix Camo pattern or is it different for different vehicle ?




on a visit to the Lima Tank Plant in Lima Ohio, there was a train load of brand new tanks loaded on rail cars. The camo patterns were identical on all tanks! I've never been inside their paint shop, but I'd say they were robotically painted. Remember saying to myself that they looked like a train load of snakes!
gary



Hahaha... In this case, I cannot apply my artist license and spray any pattern that I
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,009 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 06:20 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text


One more question- is the 105mm barrel really an oval shape or is it round- the kit one has a slightly ovoid cross-section


Whaaat?... Of course it should be round. The actual barrel, the thermal sleeve and the bore evacator are all round. The bore evacuator is located offset to the barrel axis, but still it is round.
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
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Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 06:32 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Mike, I can answer your questions on the M1A2. Yes, as the A2 is the standard U.S. Army tank it is painted in NATO three tone as well as desert tan.


Yes and no... Originally almost all M1A2s and M1A2SEP were tan. The only ones painted NATO camo in the whole US Army were those at Fort Knox (if I remember correctly). So for many years, unless you wanted to make a Fort Knox tank model, you had only one color option for M1A2: CARC tan...

It has changed in recent years, particularly when those tank appeared in Europe and Korea, but as others mentioned - I'm not sure if any non-Knox non-SEP A2s were ever repainted.
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,009 posts
Armorama: 3,609 posts
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 06:42 PM GMT+7
Why is the left side fuel filler cap cover different from the right one?... Both should be like the right one.



Some XM1 tanks had welded covers with a tab on the side, but the tabs were on both covers (on the left side of the left cover and on the right side of the right cover) and I think the design was changed to the later cast version without any tabs for production M1s.

XM1:



EDIT: I just realized what the problem with the left cover is... The details of the cover are rotated 90 degrees... The "tabs" should be near the hinges, like on the right side, but are rotated to the sides. Fail! Luckily I have a lot of spare separate covers from Dragon M1 kits...
TheLastDinosaur
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Missouri, United States
Joined: December 20, 2015
KitMaker: 8 posts
Armorama: 7 posts
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 09:40 PM GMT+7
Jason,

I have a photo of an M1 on display at Ft. Leonard Wood, MO, and it looks like the periscopes are just armored glass.
Looking forward to more info on your M1 assessment.

FWIW,

The Last Dinosaur
BootsDMS
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England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 288 posts
Armorama: 284 posts
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 10:24 PM GMT+7
If the barrel does indeed turn out to be a bit duff, could a replacement be found from the M60A3 version - assuming there's an after market metal one somewhere out there?
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
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Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 10:52 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

If the barrel does indeed turn out to be a bit duff, could a replacement be found from the M60A3 version - assuming there's an after market metal one somewhere out there?


Not a direct replacement, but one could modify a late type M60A3 barrel to work with M1. The problem is that only DEF offered that type of barrel and it is out of production

http://defmodel.com/catalog/htm/dm35015.html
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 15,457 posts
Armorama: 12,001 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 12:22 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Hi Gino,

Quick question to you... For M1A2...have you seen any of them in Nato 3 tone camo ?

I am going to get the new Tamiya 1/48 M1A2 and thinking of painting it in this scheme.

Does the vehicle follow a fix Camo pattern or is it different for different vehicle ?




To back-up and clarify what has been said, all straight M1A2s and M1A2 SEPs in operational use (not at the Armor School - Ft Knox) were sand. In the last few years, M1A2 SEP v2s in Korea and Europe (EAS - European Activity set - rotational unit vehicles) were painted in standard NATO camo. All stateside M1A2 SEP v2s are still sand.
BootsDMS
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England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 288 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 12:26 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

If the barrel does indeed turn out to be a bit duff, could a replacement be found from the M60A3 version - assuming there's an after market metal one somewhere out there?


Not a direct replacement, but one could modify a late type M60A3 barrel to work with M1. The problem is that only DEF offered that type of barrel and it is out of production

http://defmodel.com/catalog/htm/dm35015.html



Pavel,

Many thanks; most useful - I might keep an eye out for a couple.

Brian