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Яusso-Soviэt Forum: Cold War Soviet Armor
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
SAA T-72B3
m4sherman
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Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,146 posts
Armorama: 1,097 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 16, 2017 - 05:53 AM GMT+7
I picked up a Meng T-73B3 for a good price with plans to do an SAA version. What I've been able to find out is the SAA got some 'B3 versions earlier this year, and are using them in the Palmyra area. I read the build review on the Meng T-90, and figured the Meng T-72 would be a good choice.

My knowledge of the T-72 is poor. Is the Meng 'B3 good enough out of the box for an SAA tank? Or are there some differences I need to fix? Given the losses to ATGM's I would think the SAA would put on some sort of counter measure like the T-90's, but I can't see it.



Plans are for a metal barrel if I can find one for a good price, and maybe some extra stowage. SAA tanks seem to be rather bare. The "something" camera is a good idea as well once I find where I saw it added to a model.
arpikaszabo
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Praha, Czech Republic
Joined: February 13, 2006
KitMaker: 629 posts
Armorama: 592 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 16, 2017 - 06:44 AM GMT+7
Hello, the Meng kit should work for this version. I have a few more pics, probably of the same tank. Drop me a PM with your e-mail.

Given the nature of this conflict, I would expect Russia to showcase the newest version of this tank, with the upgraded side armor, very soon...
Wolf239
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: September 05, 2015
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 97 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 16, 2017 - 09:14 AM GMT+7
I am not a great expert on Syrian armor, but I collect pics from Syria for a long time and check all T-72/T-90 new kits on the market. I have also been to May 9 Victory Day parade rehearsal in Saint Petersburg this year and saw the T-72B3ís newly supplied to the Western Military District. I have seen this TV video you posted. (The parade tanks were like the one from the video, but with a simple turret MG mount instead an RWS). From what I know, this Meng kit is the best offer on the market up to date. It almost 100% falls with the tank shown in the video. I see only two specifics here. The first one is absence of the fuel drums on the combat vehicle, which is obvious due to high risk of fire. The second one is that the exhaust of this SAA tank and the Meng kitís differ (check it here http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10391090 ). The reason for this is simple. T-72B3ís are rebuilt from eternal storage Soviet-built tanks in the stash (which basically come for free in amounts of thousands). Depending on the Soviet production batch, minor details of these T-72ís can differ (including the exhausts). Iíd say you do not have to change exhaust on your model, cause it can come either way. I am thinking on making a T-72 or T-90 in Syria myself, and I will take Meng cause they got all the versions to choose from.
Wolf239
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: September 05, 2015
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 97 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 16, 2017 - 09:23 AM GMT+7
On countermeasure devices, SAA fits some but not all of their tanks with them. I saw it on T-55 and T-62. I never saw this device on a T-90 but those T-90 were equipped with Shtora. Though against ATGM like TOW-2A, Shtora is useless. I suggest that the tank in the video does not have countermeasure either because it is new (they didnít have time to install it) or because against newer generation ATGMís, itís useless. I suppose these guys would definitely want a T-90MS and/or BMPT-72 with Relict counter-tandem-warhead ERA.
panamadan
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Minnesota, United States
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 725 posts
Armorama: 671 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 16, 2017 - 12:31 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

I picked up a Meng T-73B3 for a good price with plans to do an SAA version. What I've been able to find out is the SAA got some 'B3 versions earlier this year, and are using them in the Palmyra area. I read the build review on the Meng T-90, and figured the Meng T-72 would be a good choice.

My knowledge of the T-72 is poor. Is the Meng 'B3 good enough out of the box for an SAA tank? Or are there some differences I need to fix? Given the losses to ATGM's I would think the SAA would put on some sort of counter measure like the T-90's, but I can't see i



Plans are for a metal barrel if I can find one for a good price, and maybe some extra stowage. SAA tanks seem to be rather bare. The "something" camera is a good idea as well once I find where I saw it added to a model.



Randy, I just built the Meng T90 and the barrel really doesn't need to be replaced
Dan
m4sherman
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Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,146 posts
Armorama: 1,097 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 16, 2017 - 01:16 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Hello, the Meng kit should work for this version. I have a few more pics, probably of the same tank. Drop me a PM with your e-mail.

Given the nature of this conflict, I would expect Russia to showcase the newest version of this tank, with the upgraded side armor, very soon...



Arpad,

I got this picture, with many others, from you a few months ago.

Thank you!
WilliamDeCicco
#161
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New York, United States
Joined: May 03, 2010
KitMaker: 361 posts
Armorama: 346 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 16, 2017 - 01:23 PM GMT+7
I'm thinking about a T-72 like this with a T-90 used in Syria,were they ever used together when out on missions. I'm also trying to figure out what AFV or BTR or BMP they used with those tanks or was it what ever was available they used? I wouldn't mind adding one either abandoned or destroyed.

Happy modelling
m4sherman
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Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,146 posts
Armorama: 1,097 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 16, 2017 - 01:28 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

On countermeasure devices, SAA fits some but not all of their tanks with them. I saw it on T-55 and T-62. I never saw this device on a T-90 but those T-90 were equipped with Shtora. Though against ATGM like TOW-2A, Shtora is useless. I suggest that the tank in the video does not have countermeasure either because it is new (they didnít have time to install it) or because against newer generation ATGMís, itís useless. I suppose these guys would definitely want a T-90MS and/or BMPT-72 with Relict counter-tandem-warhead ERA.



Michael,

Thank you for the information. It's nice to have a T-72 and T-90 that can be built into a SAA tank with only a few things to change. I like the looks of the T-72B3 and T-90's.

Maybe Meng will do the T-72 Ural so we can easily do a SAA version of the tank.
m4sherman
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Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,146 posts
Armorama: 1,097 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 16, 2017 - 01:30 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text


Randy, I just built the Meng T90 and the barrel really doesn't need to be replaced
Dan



Dan,

That's good to know.

Thanks.
m4sherman
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Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,146 posts
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Posted: Sunday, July 16, 2017 - 01:52 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

I'm thinking about a T-72 like this with a T-90 used in Syria,were they ever used together when out on missions. I'm also trying to figure out what AFV or BTR or BMP they used with those tanks or was it what ever was available they used? I wouldn't mind adding one either abandoned or destroyed.

Happy modelling



Pictures of the SAA T-90 are more common than the T-72B3's, but all the pictures I found only show a single tank, or with another T-90, as far as I can tell. My guess is the T-90 was used with just about everything else the SAA has.
grunt136mike
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Florida, United States
Joined: November 24, 2012
KitMaker: 1,576 posts
Armorama: 1,543 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 16, 2017 - 03:02 PM GMT+7
Hi Guys;

The most common vehicle's seen with T-72s is the BMP-2, YW-531,& YW-701 !!! The last two vehicles are Chinese types.
The BMP-2 is most favored for its High angle & Rapid Fire 30mm Auto Cannon.

CHEERS; MIKE.
Johnathan123
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United States
Joined: December 15, 2016
KitMaker: 14 posts
Armorama: 14 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 16, 2017 - 03:37 PM GMT+7
I am currently building a Trumpeter T-62M and Meng T-90. When you complete your build please share it with us.

Lots of pictures here:

http://sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/754-syrian-tanks-at-war-some-pictures-and-words-between-them/&page=33

https://milinme.wordpress.com/category/t-72/page/2/

If any one has links to Syrian BMP-2, YW-531,& YW-701 can you please share?
grunt136mike
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Florida, United States
Joined: November 24, 2012
KitMaker: 1,576 posts
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Posted: Sunday, July 16, 2017 - 06:25 PM GMT+7
Hi;

For vehicles used in Syria, go to UTUBE and the type in tank's in Darriya. its quite interesting to watch as it reveals of tuff combat is in an urban setting.

CHEERS; MIKE.
m4sherman
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Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,146 posts
Armorama: 1,097 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 16, 2017 - 07:56 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

I am currently building a Trumpeter T-62M and Meng T-90. When you complete your build please share it with us.

Lots of pictures here:

http://sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/754-syrian-tanks-at-war-some-pictures-and-words-between-them/&page=33

https://milinme.wordpress.com/category/t-72/page/2/

If any one has links to Syrian BMP-2, YW-531,& YW-701 can you please share?



Thanks for the links. Some good pictures there.
m4sherman
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Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,146 posts
Armorama: 1,097 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 16, 2017 - 07:59 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Hi;

For vehicles used in Syria, go to UTUBE and the type in tank's in Darriya. its quite interesting to watch as it reveals of tuff combat is in an urban setting.

CHEERS; MIKE.



YouTube is EVIL! I spent hours watching those videos from the SAA GoPro cameras, like the dark side, it takes over your life!

That's why I got the T-72. Amazing videos.
Wolf239
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: September 05, 2015
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 97 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 - 06:27 AM GMT+7
If you still like to make it exactly as in the video, Miniarm has B35096 Exhaust and oil tank for T-72 for Zvezda ,Tamiya, Meng, Trumpeter kits. http://www.miniarm.com/index.php?category=Series%20Tank%20T-72/T-90&srt=fuel+DESC which confirms the Russians just didn't bother upgrading the Soviet exhaust.
m4sherman
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Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,146 posts
Armorama: 1,097 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 20, 2017 - 03:39 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

If you still like to make it exactly as in the video, Miniarm has B35096 Exhaust and oil tank for T-72 for Zvezda ,Tamiya, Meng, Trumpeter kits. http://www.miniarm.com/index.php?category=Series%20Tank%20T-72/T-90&srt=fuel+DESC which confirms the Russians just didn't bother upgrading the Soviet exhaust.



Thanks for the link. I'll look into it. I started the model, but it's slow going since I'm uploading some walk arounds trying to learn about the tank.
m4sherman
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Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,146 posts
Armorama: 1,097 posts
Posted: Friday, July 21, 2017 - 07:12 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

If you still like to make it exactly as in the video, Miniarm has B35096 Exhaust and oil tank for T-72 for Zvezda ,Tamiya, Meng, Trumpeter kits. http://www.miniarm.com/index.php?category=Series%20Tank%20T-72/T-90&srt=fuel+DESC which confirms the Russians just didn't bother upgrading the Soviet exhaust.



Thanks for the link. I'll look into it. I started the model, but it's slow going since I'm uploading some walk arounds trying to learn about the tank.



After studying T-72B3 walk arounds, and pictures of the tank in Syria, I think the kit exhaust looks a lot like the Miniarm set. I ordered a PE set and will see what that looks like before deciding on the exhaust. The oil tank seems to have more variety than the exhaust.
m4sherman
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Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,146 posts
Armorama: 1,097 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 12:40 PM GMT+7
Slow going on the model. After reading some of the comments on Mengs plastic I wasn't sure how it would be. It reminds me of the old Italeri plastic and glues up well for me.

A few observations so far. How the front plate is assembled will make it easier for Meng to do multiple variants, but can be a problem as there are three pieces where there should be a solid plate on the lower sides of the upper front plate. The seams are mostly covered by add on pieces, but it could have been engineered a little better. There is a gap between the upper and lower hulls above the first road wheel, aka Tamiya T-55. I didn't see it until I had the hulls glued.

The hull top in front of the turret is also a separate piece. There is a gap on the sides, but since there is a weld along that seam it won't be a problem for me.

I decided to replace the wiring to the headlights to make it simpler to fill in the gaps on the top sides, and glues the 1st, 2nd and 6th road wheel arms. If I add any bumps in the road I'll make them under the middle wheels.

The only other thing is there are very thin gaps between some parts. The most obvious were around the drivers visor and the upper rear hull plate.

None the less it is a solid kit, and I plan on building a Syrian T-72B 1989 using the Meng T-72B1 and T-90. Unless Meng gets the lead out and releases it first.
m4sherman
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Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,146 posts
Armorama: 1,097 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 12:42 PM GMT+7
Messed up the pictures, trying again.



JSSVIII
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Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 549 posts
Armorama: 512 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 11:29 PM GMT+7
Nice progress Randall, What do you think of the fenders in the kit, I've seen quite a few pictures of T-72s in combat now that have had the external fuel tanks removed. Is the detail on the fenders such that you could leave them off also, or would one have to scratchbuild brackets and such?
Johnathan123
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United States
Joined: December 15, 2016
KitMaker: 14 posts
Armorama: 14 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 23, 2017 - 03:09 AM GMT+7
Keep the pictures coming I am still trying to get Meng's T-90 done. I have had a problem with the front mud guards staying down and small parts on the engine deck. I think you are alright mixing parts or building it stock. Have fun with it. I always say never say never on Syrian armor. I have a good theory that these tanks are received from old stock of about 20 per batch, some who were upgraded when they were in service. You would be OK with or without the fender tanks (most show them without though). What color scheme are you going for? Here is some inspiration for you....

[url=http://http://afvsinminiature.blogspot.com/search/label/T-72B%20obr.%201989%20Aleppo%20Syria

[url=http://http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/3359509.html

[url=http://http://www.russiadefence.net/t4036p120-syrian-armed-forces-photos-video

notice the extra ERA blocks?
m4sherman
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Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,146 posts
Armorama: 1,097 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 23, 2017 - 03:21 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Nice progress Randall, What do you think of the fenders in the kit, I've seen quite a few pictures of T-72s in combat now that have had the external fuel tanks removed. Is the detail on the fenders such that you could leave them off also, or would one have to scratchbuild brackets and such?



Here's what the fenders look like. Bare with a few locating holes.

I have no idea which model is more accurate, but for a fender damaged T-72 I think the Trumpeter kit would be a better starting point because the fenders are separate. That is the one major annoyance with the Meng kit. For the battle damaged T-72 I have planned I will use the Trumpeter kit and borrow from Meng where needed.

I just got a Trumpeter T-72B/B1 (when did they start using gold plated molds! It cost way more than their T-90's) and compared it to the Meng T-73B3. Detail wise the Meng is a bit more crisp, but over-all the level of detail is similar.

The real advantage to the Trumpeter model is the one piece front plate. No real welds, but no frustrating seams in tight places to fill in either. The Meng kit is 1mm narrower than Trumpeter across the nose, 57mm vs. 58mm, but both are 62mm across the wide part of the plate. Those numbers are as close as I can get with an old metric ruler.

On the turrets the Meng model is more rounded on the front while the Trumpeter seems flattened. Detail wise I think both are about the same.

For my planned beat up T-72B I'm starting to think the Trumpeter will be a better base kit. No need to cut off the fenders, molded on radiation stuff etc.

m4sherman
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Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, July 23, 2017 - 06:46 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Keep the pictures coming I am still trying to get Meng's T-90 done. I have had a problem with the front mud guards staying down and small parts on the engine deck. I think you are alright mixing parts or building it stock. Have fun with it. I always say never say never on Syrian armor. I have a good theory that these tanks are received from old stock of about 20 per batch, some who were upgraded when they were in service. You would be OK with or without the fender tanks (most show them without though). What color scheme are you going for? Here is some inspiration for you....

[url=http://http://afvsinminiature.blogspot.com/search/label/T-72B%20obr.%201989%20Aleppo%20Syria

[url=http://http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/3359509.html

[url=http://http://www.russiadefence.net/t4036p120-syrian-armed-forces-photos-video

notice the extra ERA blocks?



You might be right about small numbers getting into Syria rather than a large shipment. One of the post I found said that around 30 T-72B3's arrived as a group. That number suggests one load off a cargo ship? Isn't there an embargo? Not that Russia would be concerned about that, or any other country for that matter. Look at all the new trucks you see in videos. I got the Meng picks up to use for a Syria build.

My plan is to make a tank like the one in my first picture, one of the 30 or so that arrived in March and went into combat around Palmyra. The tanks photographed are in good shape and still in Russian green. Since they are distinctive compared to the T-72B's and T-90's I can tell them apart. So far none that I have seen have been repainted. However, it looks like some T-90's were sent to Syria with the Russian 3 tone desert paint, so maybe some T73B3's were as well.
JSSVIII
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Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 549 posts
Armorama: 512 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 23, 2017 - 07:24 AM GMT+7
Thanks for the info on the fenders Randall, and thanks for the comparison with the Meng kit also. I really wish someone would also hurry up and do a T-72AV already, there are so many excellent photos of that variant in Syria, and Ukraine.