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Type XXIII - colour question and OOB review
Mechworker
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Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2016 - 03:15 AM UTC
I don’t know about you, but when I think of submarines, even WWII submarines, I think of relatively large ships designed to prowl the ocean depths like sharks stalking their prey. I don’t really think of costal patrol submarines; small boats with short range and limited armament. However, that’s exactly what the German Type XXIII was; a ‘brown water’ sub designed for shorter duration patrols in coastal waters.

I was quite pleased to find a kit of this interesting craft a few years ago on a trip to a local shop. Since then, it seems like there’s been more interest in the Type XXIII, as now I see that Revell has repopped the ICM offering! However, the one I have is the Trumpeter 1/144. This is a neat kit because it has three different bridge options, compared to the ICM’s one. Of course, this led to a confusing search for information, but it was quite enlightening as well.

My problem is colouration. The box shows all grey, but most photos show black on bottom and grey on top. Unfortunately, they’re all black and white pictures, so I can’t tell if the sub’s “underwater” part should be black or anti-fouling red.

Any ideas, or proof, of why one or the other?

Check out this fairly recent offering “out of the box” here:

https://adamrehorn.wordpress.com/model-kits/out-of-box-reviews/trumpeter-1144-type-xxiii-submarine-oob/


TAFFY3
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Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2016 - 04:25 AM UTC


This is my 1/35th scale Type XXIII from Bronco. Best info that I could come up with was dark gray upper hull, I used Testor's Gunship Gray, and darker gray lower hull (Terstor's Panzer Gray) with a Black boot topping in between. I found out too late that the stripe on the Tower probably should have been yellow, not white. Al
Mechworker
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Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2016 - 04:32 AM UTC
Wow!

That's a heck of a submarine! Nicely done; it looks fantastic!

Where did you get that colour scheme? Was it from the instructions or a book or what? I'd like to get this right, for no other reason than I think it's a cool boat that a lot of people have forgotten!
TRM5150
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Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2016 - 04:59 AM UTC
Fine job on the Bronco version Adam! Looking forward to seeing you hit the Trumpy!

There is always going to be a debate about colors. Accurate Model Parts did some fantastic work gathering information on all U-boats. One of their go-to references for me is their "The Wolf Pack". Basically, Germans followed the same mandates that were in place for all U-boats from the outset of WWII until its end...this is where the lower hull color was a dark grey anti-fowling color.

The Wolf Pack .pdf link - http://amp.rokket.biz/docs/the_wolf_pack_compr.pdf

Color are extensively discussed throughout...and while the Type XXIII is not mentioned, the information about German regulations is what you are looking for. For a quick look, check page 21.
Mechworker
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Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2016 - 05:18 AM UTC
Thanks a lot for the reference! Mighty handy indeed!

Oh, I didn't build that beautiful Bronco, though. That was Al's handiwork! It does look mighty fine, though, doesn't it!?

GrantGoodale
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Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2016 - 07:37 AM UTC
You might also want to try www.uboat.net. A major source of information.
JJ1973
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Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2016 - 10:18 AM UTC
Hi Adam!

I have to admit that I don't have certain references on the Type XXIII, and I would assume it's getting fuzzy towards the end of the war anyway (those boats were entering action rather late).

A common paint scheme for German subs during WWII was, however, dark, anti -fouling grey for the lower hull and lighter grey for the upper, as was mentioned before.
More specific you would look at what is called 'Schlickgrau 58' for the upper hull and 'Schiffsbodenfarbe III' for the lower, good reference for the color are Snyder & Short's paint chips, and if you happen to use Tamiya paints as I do, the Tamiya XF 53 is a good match for the 'Schlickgrau' and XF 63 for 'Schiffsbodenfarbe III'. There would be no boot topping (as far as I know).

Cheers,
Jan
TAFFY3
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Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2016 - 04:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Wow!

That's a heck of a submarine! Nicely done; it looks fantastic!

Where did you get that colour scheme? Was it from the instructions or a book or what? I'd like to get this right, for no other reason than I think it's a cool boat that a lot of people have forgotten!



Thank you, I did some research and the general consensus was the two shades of gray. Not sure if the colors that I used are an exact match (they look slightly different in reality) but were close enough for me. There was some discussion about the existence of the boot topping. Some boats definitely didn't have one. I did find one photo that (IMHO) showed a black stripe around the hull. Because of fouling evident on the hull I couldn't be 100% certain, but it looked like a boot topping to me. Most models that I've seen have one. That of course doesn't make it correct. Hope this helps. Al
Mechworker
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Posted: Friday, December 16, 2016 - 01:03 AM UTC
Thanks all!

I have a really, really stupid question. Before I ask it though, please remember that I am NOT a naval historian at all. I know air warfare well, ground warfare somewhat and anime very well. I have literally 3 books on warships to my hundreds on planes and tens on tanks.

That having been said, what is "boot topping" or the "boot line" and why is it called that?

Thanks!
TRM5150
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Posted: Friday, December 16, 2016 - 01:33 AM UTC
Not a naval historian either...Read a few times that 'Boot Top' refers to the demarcation line between the lower hull and upper hull. Lower hull typically has copper or some sort of anti-fowling paint on it to resist buildup of scum ad barnacles. The boot top works similar as it transitions the upper and lower hull and typically, but not always, is at or about the waterline. I read somewhere once that it was called the 'boot top' due to the boots sailors was had a different colored top. I have to assume boot top transitioned into boot stripe as, well, it is a stripe.

TAFFY3
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Posted: Friday, December 16, 2016 - 02:00 AM UTC
It is my understanding that it was usually painted black to hide any staining of the hull from the type of crud found floating around a harbor, oil for instance. Not sure how it got it's name. Al