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General Ship Modeling
Discuss modeling techniques, experiences, and ship modeling in general.
Hosted by Todd Michalak
Build blog for Heller's HMS Victory
timmyp
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Posted: Thursday, February 06, 2020 - 02:16 AM UTC
Thanks Mark. Heller is just full of a lack of instructions!!
d6mst0
#453
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 02:04 PM UTC
Timothy,

Glad you were able to resolve your issue with the photos.

Now I know what a Buntline is for and why the movable and fix pulleys. It good that you were able to work through the lack of instructions on placement.

The Cain Mutiny is one my favorite Bogart movies.

Mark
timmyp
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 12:38 PM UTC
Well hooray! Everything seems to be working again.

So here's the pictures. The first one is of the buntlines themselves, which are on the forward side of the sail, and are used to help haul in the sail (similar to the cluelines [or clewlines] on the back side of the sail. I like the contrast of the brown thread against the white of the sail:

" BORDER="0">

So once the buntline goes through its respective pulley on the yardarm, it was attached to another pulley. This second pulley, along with a third pulley that I attached to the mizzen top, makes up what is called a "gun tackle", wherein one pulley is fixed, and the other is moveable. So in the next pic, I've marked-up a few things on the upper pulley:

" BORDER="0">

And this pic shows some details down around the fixed pulley. The approximate distance between the fixed pulley and the moveable pulley is somewhere around 130 mm, or 5.118 (close to 5 and one-eight) inches.

" BORDER="0">

Unfortunately, in neither of the last 2 photos, can you see where the hauling line of all this stuff is belayed to (or, where it's tied off). Of course, Heller doesn't give any indication, and Longridge writes that it is belayed "to the second lower shroud"...which doesn't help either. So, in this case, I had previously cut some white thread (guestimating its length), and that length wasn't long enough to tie off the end around the fixed pulley, so I just decided to belay about halfway down the upper set of shrouds...that way, it sort of goes along with Longridge, and it gave me a lot of excess thread to tie the knot!

So no,w on to the mizzen topsail buntline stuff, and then on to rigging stuff on the mainmast.

For those of you out in mid-west of the U.S., I hope the storms haven't hit you too hard, and you're keeping yourself safe and warm.

And "The Caine Mutiny" is on TCM right now, so I might finish watching it.

Thanks!!

Tim

timmyp
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 06:41 AM UTC
B. -

No, I don't recall there being a specific error message, just the error window had the complete path to the image, then something like "system error", and with a large multiple digit negative number (something like "-1234567890"), and nothing more. This happened on images both on my memory stick and on my hard drive. The good news is, this morning, I was able to open an image that was on my desktop, so maybe now, everything's ok...I'll know more later this afternoon, once I get home.

Thanks for asking, and fingers crossed for success!
brekinapez
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Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 01:04 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Mark, Jan, and Russell.

I took some pictures of the finished buntlines tonight, but for some reason, my PC isn't reading any of the image files, either on the memory stick or on the hard drive. Not sure what the problem is, I just get a cryptic error message.




Do you recall what the error was?
timmyp
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Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 12:37 PM UTC
Thanks Mark, Jan, and Russell.

I took some pictures of the finished buntlines tonight, but for some reason, my PC isn't reading any of the image files, either on the memory stick or on the hard drive. Not sure what the problem is, I just get a cryptic error message.

So I'll post those pix once I get things figured out; the next step will be to prepare the buntline tackle for the mizzen top sail.

Tim
RussellE
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Posted: Monday, February 03, 2020 - 08:36 AM UTC
Tim, your persistence and patience with this model is just amazing!

As Jan said, not something I could do, but I definitely appreciate the high standards you've set here!

She'll be a show piece for sure when completed
JJ1973
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Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 - 06:57 AM UTC
Tim,

your patience with all the lines and the rigging continues to amaze me. I said it before - I couldn't do it. Great work, keep up your patience and motivation!

Cheers
Jan
d6mst0
#453
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Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2020 - 05:45 AM UTC
Timothy,

You lost me at "buntline", so I wait for the after photos to see how it worked out you... Good luck!

Mark
timmyp
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Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2020 - 04:40 AM UTC
So the current problem is, how far down from the yardarm should the upper pulley be, so that when the hauling line is pulled in, it pulls the buntline up, as well as pulls that upper pulley closer to the fixed pulley, which is down on the mizzen top. The first thing I did was make a diagram as to some of the dimensions.

" BORDER="0">

(Sorry if it's hard to read!)

So once I got the basic dimensions, I made a test rig for it:

" BORDER="0">

It looks like the upper pulley should be about 15 - 20 mm below the yardarm (it could probably be more, as I don't think anyone will the know the difference).

And lastly, a close-up of my mark of 83 mm down from the top of the test which is the length of the sail at where the buntline is attached to the sail:

" BORDER="0">

So now, I just have to go and rig this on the ship.

Cheers!

Tim
timmyp
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Posted: Sunday, January 19, 2020 - 02:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

[quote

Of course I will make another attempt just because I refuse to be beaten--LOL

Mark



That's the spirit!!


Quoted Text



Tim,

One step forward two steps back, I know the feeling. The crane on my IJN Kirishima build is sitting there without any lines between the pulleys because they kept popping off when I tried to attach the line to the other pulley. After a dozen attempts I reattached the pulleys and said the hell with it and left them be.



Are those pulleys for raising and lowering the boom, or are they the lifting pulleys? I took a peek at your blog, the crane looked good!

Tim



Tim,

They are for raising and lowering the boom.

Mark [/quote]

And I think I read the crane is PE? I would think it wouldn't be that difficult, but then, I've never worked with any PE parts.

In other news, I got around to putting some rigging in place on the mizzen mast:

" BORDER="0">

I started work on the top sail rigging, and I saw that there is another line (A55), that, for lack of a phrase, I'm calling the secondary buntline. The problem here was, the block that this line goes through, was tight against the sail, and I didn't have much room to try to get the thread through it. So I used a short piece of excess thread, and pushed the thread through the block, to use it was a "puller" thread for A55. It took a while to get the excess thread pushed through! But once I got it through, I glued it to the actual thread and managed to pull it through. Here's a couple of pics:

" BORDER="0">

" BORDER="0">

Sorry that last photo is a bit out of focus. Another hazard I've found is that, when attaching the sail to the yardarm, I managed to get the footrope caught in the thread I used to bend the sail to the yard; in the previous picture, you might be able to see, right around the mast, how the footrope was caught.

See ya soon!
d6mst0
#453
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Posted: Friday, January 17, 2020 - 12:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

[quote

Of course I will make another attempt just because I refuse to be beaten--LOL

Mark



That's the spirit!!


Quoted Text



Tim,

One step forward two steps back, I know the feeling. The crane on my IJN Kirishima build is sitting there without any lines between the pulleys because they kept popping off when I tried to attach the line to the other pulley. After a dozen attempts I reattached the pulleys and said the hell with it and left them be.



Are those pulleys for raising and lowering the boom, or are they the lifting pulleys? I took a peek at your blog, the crane looked good!

Tim[/quote]

Tim,

They are for raising and lowering the boom.

Mark
timmyp
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2020 - 08:52 PM UTC
[quote

Of course I will make another attempt just because I refuse to be beaten--LOL

Mark [/quote]

That's the spirit!!

[quote
]Tim,

One step forward two steps back, I know the feeling. The crane on my IJN Kirishima build is sitting there without any lines between the pulleys because they kept popping off when I tried to attach the line to the other pulley. After a dozen attempts I reattached the pulleys and said the hell with it and left them be.[/quote]

Are those pulleys for raising and lowering the boom, or are they the lifting pulleys? I took a peek at your blog, the crane looked good!

Tim
d6mst0
#453
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2020 - 03:49 AM UTC
Tim,

One step forward two steps back, I know the feeling. The crane on my IJN Kirishima build is sitting there without any lines between the pulleys because they kept popping off when I tried to attach the line to the other pulley. After a dozen attempts I reattached the pulleys and said the hell with it and left them be.

Of course I will make another attempt just because I refuse to be beaten--LOL

Mark
timmyp
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Posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - 06:51 PM UTC
Well, I really wanted to get the sheet & clew lines strung up today, but before I started, I told myself I should install the buntlines, so that I wouldn't be competing with the other lines for space. So as I was trying to get the buntline between the sail and the yard, and was putting a fair amount of pressure on the yard, I told myself that even with the manipulation I was putting on the yard, it was still attached to the mast.

That thought lasted about 3 seconds.

So yes, the yardarm became detached from the mast, but the buntlines are in place, and I re-glued the yardarm, and stopped for the day, to let the glue cure for 24 hours (it's regular Testor's glue in a tube). So tomorrow, I'll take another stab at getting the sheet & clew lines put in.

I didn't do any work on the ship this past weekend, even though I had hoped to, but I woke up Saturday morning, feeling rather "blah" and hurting all over. And rather than sit at home and wasting the day, I went to the movie theater and saw "1917". Well made movie, got a little sappy at the end, but I'll give it two thumbs up.

More later! And thanks for checking in!

Tim
timmyp
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Posted: Thursday, January 09, 2020 - 07:54 PM UTC
Mark, Jan, and Russell,

Thanks for your kind words & encouragement.

If I find the time this weekend, I hope to get the majority of the mizzen sails rigged this weekend. Fingers crossed!!

Tim
RussellE
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Posted: Wednesday, January 08, 2020 - 11:01 PM UTC
An Epic build Tim!

As I mentioned elsewhere I'm always in awe of model sailing ships but like Jan, I couldn't do it either.

My hat off to you sir for seeing the build through!
JJ1973
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Posted: Wednesday, January 08, 2020 - 07:08 AM UTC
Hi Tim,

I'm there with Mark, his second last comment. Just hats off to you, I couldn't do it. I keep seeing amazed by your patience and by all the rigging and blocks and stuff you're doing, despite those often less than helpful instructions, and you are getting there! Fantastic work!

Cheers
Jan
d6mst0
#453
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Posted: Tuesday, January 07, 2020 - 11:53 PM UTC
Timothy,

Sounds like good news. Looking forward to the photos of the installation.

Mark
timmyp
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Posted: Tuesday, January 07, 2020 - 06:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text



I found out today, I have to install some more blocks on the main mast, that will accept the brace lines from the mizzen mast. The installation of these blocks are not in the instructions for putting the main mast together; they're actually in a subsequent instruction that describes putting the shrouds & mast components together.



I re-read the instructions regarding the aforementioned blocks, and these blocks actually attach to the main mast shrouds. Problem solved!!
timmyp
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Posted: Thursday, January 02, 2020 - 01:48 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Timothy,

Nice recovery and adjustments. Looking at the photos I keep asking myself how in the heck can he get in there to that work without effecting the existing rigging. I couldn't do it, hats off to you for doing it.

Mark



Thanks, Mark. Yeah, it's a big enough challenge doing the rigging the first time, let alone going back and putting something in that was missed. Two tricks that help: give yourself a lot of time, and give yourself threads that are long enough so that they'll be easy to grab with tweezers, fingers, etc.

I found out today, I have to install some more blocks on the main mast, that will accept the brace lines from the mizzen mast. The installation of these blocks are not in the instructions for putting the main mast together; they're actually in a subsequent instruction that describes putting the shrouds & mast components together. Oh well. At least I got another sail attached before the end of the year (here's where time comes into play: I spent about 90 minutes securing the sail to the yardarm).

Thanks, one and all, for stopping by and taking a look. It's still early in the year, but there is optimism that this build might actually get completed this year!
d6mst0
#453
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Posted: Sunday, December 29, 2019 - 03:11 PM UTC
Timothy,

Nice recovery and adjustments. Looking at the photos I keep asking myself how in the heck can he get in there to that work without effecting the existing rigging. I couldn't do it, hats off to you for doing it.

Mark
timmyp
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Posted: Sunday, December 29, 2019 - 02:03 PM UTC
So, in looking at where the buntlines belay to (on the mizzenmast top, step 27C), the instructions indicate they belay to some pullies that were (supposed to have been) installed in step 22C. Well, I remember looking at step 22C, and it shows 4 blocks attached to the rings in the mizzen top, and those 4 blocks are magically attached to 4 more blocks, with a flag in the instructions to indicate I should look at step 27C for further instruction. Well, these being those finely thought-out Heler instructions, I decided at the time to just skip utting the blocks in, and I'd belay the buntlines to the rings. Well, now that I'm putting the rigging into place, I decided to go ahead and put the pullies in place, and try to rig the buntlines. as they're supposed to be? Heller's instructions skip over just how all this tuff get put together.

But before putting any blocks in place, I had to fabricate another ring, as the one I previously glued into placed had broken off. So I took a 4 mm metal ring, cut some of it, and formed a ring with the remaineder, then super-glued it to the mizzen top. In attaching the blocks to the rings (blocks p278, p280, p282, and p284) the question comes to mind, how high up from the top should the pullies be? I decided to make their height about even with the mast cap, with the inner blocks belonging to the topgallant buntlines, and the outer blocks belonging to the topsail buntlines. So now, the guess is to determine how far from the yardarm the buntline should fall, before that end wraps around a block (in this case, either p279, p281, p280, or p285). So ow, I have to go back a little bit, and attach blocks to the fore and main tops for the buntlines on the sails on those masts. (For what's it worth, I started getting the blocks prepared tonight. I found that for the fore mast, the distance from the top to the mast cap is 45 mm, and for the main mast, the distance is 55 mm).

I hope all of that made some sense!

So here is a picture of the metal ring I made. It's slightly larger than the rings that came with the kit, but I don't think anyone's going to notice. The ring is already attached to the top; it's about in the middle of the picture:

" BORDER="0">

This is a picture of the rings, with one block already installed to an inner ring:

" BORDER="0">

And this last one shows 2 buntlines roved through separate blocks; you'll notice that the blocks are at about the same height as the mast cap.

" BORDER="0">

So that's about it for now. One bright spot: since I haven't really done much rigging on the other 2 masts, installing the blocks on the respective tops should be a little bit easier.

Thanks for taking a look, and I hope everyone has a Happy New Year!!
timmyp
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Posted: Tuesday, December 17, 2019 - 10:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Timonthy,

Sorry to hear about the mishap. I thought builders ran the thread through bees wax to eliminate those threads?

Mark



Thanks, Mark. I use beeswax mostly to lubricate threads; I've never considered using it as an adhesive/binder.

I've started repairing the topgallant tye line today; I might finish tonight when I get home from work, or maybe tomorrow (at least I'll have sunlight tomorrow!).

Tim
d6mst0
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Posted: Tuesday, December 17, 2019 - 12:28 AM UTC
Timonthy,

Sorry to hear about the mishap. I thought builders ran the thread through bees wax to eliminate those threads?

Mark