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General Ship Modeling
Discuss modeling techniques, experiences, and ship modeling in general.
Build blog for Heller's HMS Victory
JJ1973
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Posted: Monday, January 18, 2016 - 10:28 AM UTC
That'S really some impressive work going on on your Victory!!

As for the paint job on the stern - well, let'S say it looks pretty complicated to say the least...but that doesn't really help...

I would not think that Micro Mask can be a big help - I played around with it some but in the end could not get much use out of it. You simply mirror your problem - now you need to be absolutely exact with your Micr Mask Paint job, because every little mistake will show once you remove it.
The Idea with the graphic ink pen sounds interesting though!

Cheers,
Jan
GrantGoodale
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Posted: Monday, January 18, 2016 - 04:53 AM UTC
Larry -

Micro Mask might be a little too thick but you could try thinning it with ?

jimlolok
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Posted: Monday, January 18, 2016 - 02:02 AM UTC
Have this beauty all painted and bought matching brass cannons to overcome the tedium of gluing plastic barrels.Concerning painting the stern gallery my work around was painting everything yellow then using a refillable graphic artists pen set to VERY delicately fill in the black.This is also good for the gold filigree.
Put everything back in the box for a week then spray a VERY light and quick matt coat to fix it. Graphic ink is permanent but better safe than sorry later.
It's a big kit and I did consider making it as a half model for wall mounting.
My good lady panicked when seeing the size. I had just finished the Revell Constitution but I managed to gift it the US Embassy here in Warsaw.
Maybe Victory can go to the British embassy.
LCB248
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Posted: Sunday, January 17, 2016 - 07:39 AM UTC
I wonder, could you paint the black, then use MicroMask to cover the spaces in between the balustrades while painting the yellow? When the yellow dries peal up the MicroMask.

MicroMask is used by airplane modelers to cover smooth clear plastic on plane windshields, so I'm not sure if it will work well on a flat black paint surface. Test, test, test!!!
GrantGoodale
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Posted: Sunday, January 17, 2016 - 01:25 AM UTC
Hi Tim -

Great work so far. The only thing that I could suggest is painting the balustrades all black and then start dry brushing with the yellow. Tedious work.

FWIW
timmyp
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Posted: Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 11:54 PM UTC
So yea!! I'm about 98% finished with step 9; just painting (ha ha!!) the stern galleries and sticking them on, will complete step 9. Today's effort was to finish installing the last of the cannons. Here's a tip on installing one of the cannons, the one that goes inside one of the cabins: you can just not install that cannon, or, when building the cannon carriages, don't glue the barrels on a couple of the carriages, or glue the carriage in place before installing the cabin walls. As you can see in the below picture, the space is pretty tight:



Another little construction hint: it's not listed in the sequence of assembly, but you're supposed to add a couple of ropes to parts 142 and 143 before you install them on the ship (these are 2 small deadeye holders for the mizzenmast). Fortunately, the hole where the thread goes through was still accessible after gluing the parts in place. The only question was, does the thread start on the top of the part and go down, or is it supposed to start on the underside, and go up? No matter, really, if the thread goes up, as it is close to the edge, and you probably won't be able to tell at first glance.

Now, a few words about the stern gallery: Back a few steps in the instructions, it has you putting the rudder together, and installing it in on the ship. It is important to note that the instructions say to REST the rudder in place; it doesn't say to GLUE it. If you glue it (like I did), then a small problem of the stern gallery not fitting to the ship comes up:



I don't know if you can see the rudder post through the hole in the bottom of the stern gallery, but the idea is, glue the stern gallery in place, then re-insert the rudder up through the hole in the stern gallery, THEN cement the rudder in place. As it is, I'm going to have to saw away some of the material on the stern gallery to get it to fit around the rudder post; I may or may not try to fix the damage afterwards.

With regard to painting the stern gallery, here's a couple of pix of what I've done so far (the painting got started long ago, when I first opened the box). I still have a lot to go before it's finished. One of the hardest parts of this paint job is trying to get the yellow ballustrades (right word?) yellow, without getting the yellow paint on the black between them. If anybody has some handy-dandy ideas, I'm all ears!!

Here's the inside paint job:



Here's some outside paint job pictures:


A close-up:



A bigger view:



So given the painting task at hand, I have no idea when my next post will be. But in the meanwhile, I'll check back on occasion and look for comments and questions.

Cheers!!
TRM5150
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Posted: Friday, January 01, 2016 - 06:23 AM UTC
Looking really good the Tim! Nice work on those chainplates!
timmyp
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Posted: Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 02:15 AM UTC
Well, until I figure something else out, or somebody can clue me in, I guess I won't be able to post photos directly in this blog, there'll be links to the photos over on photobucket.

SO today (and last night) I finished painting part 35 (18 of them - they're only upright posts) that go around the opening on the top deck - no photo yet, but I think they look good. I painted them in a 2-step process: the first step was just to paint the rounded base, then after assembly, finish painting the rest of the post. I could have painted them on the sprue, but the flashing really needed to be trimmed off.

I also go all the chainplates attached, and today, I attached the chainplate support rods. Putting those support rods in was tricky, as I had to look at the underside of the chainplate to see where they were supposed to go. Trying to find the corresponding place on the hull took some doing - in the end, I put the support in place (without glue), then eye-balled where the support would attach to the hull. Initially I was using a mirror to look at the underside of the chainplates, but that wasn't too satisfactory. So when I finally got the foremast chainplate supports, I set the boat on its side, using some big books to help hold it in place





What was strange, was the middle support of the mainmast chainplate, doesn't line-up with hull - it lines-up with a cannon porthole!! Not sure what to make of that.



Now here again, Heller's very finite wisdom is on display. Of all the support rods, the mizzen & mainmasts are molded in black plastic; for the foremast, they're molded in dark brown! Why? Why couldn't they mold them in black, like the others? I know the instructions say to paint the rods to match the background hull color, but come on, would it have killed you to mold these parts in black?



And so it goes....
berndm
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Posted: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 02:04 AM UTC
Hi Tim sounds like one of "these" days good luck for your future plans and i am looking forward to your coming progress on this proud lady !

Bernd
timmyp
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Posted: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - 10:09 PM UTC
Grussti Bernd,

Thanks for your comments. Today, I just failed a quiz on my Engineering Mechanics course, so I'm pretty bummed out about that. In the meanwhile, though, I'm going to go to photobucket and read about how to post images from there to here...they apparently use different things, depending on if you're posting to a blog, a forum, e-mail, etc.
I'm at the point in step 9 of the instructions to add the chainplates, so I'll be doing that later this afternoon.

Stay tuned! More pictures will be forthcoming. Thanks for taking the time read my blog.

Tim

berndm
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Posted: Monday, December 28, 2015 - 10:51 PM UTC
Very nice pics and good progress
berndm
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Posted: Monday, December 28, 2015 - 10:50 PM UTC
Guten Tag, Tim
....sounds familar, my start on Kitmaker / Aeroscale was a disaster, using Photobucket.
The pics were at first too big, than invisible, well....

I am really looking for new pics from your build, i did a lot of sailing ships in my youth, mostly from Revell and your build is really tasty to try it again.
Have a great day
Bernd
timmyp
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Posted: Monday, December 28, 2015 - 07:10 PM UTC
Hmmmm. Well, at least now, there's a link to the photos on my latest post!

Tim
timmyp
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Posted: Monday, December 28, 2015 - 06:55 PM UTC
Gruss Gott!

Thank you for your comments, Bernd. I think the problem is with how I tried to link the images from photobucket to this forum; looking through photobucket last night, I think they do things differently from the technique used for kitmaker gallery.

Vielen Danke, Auf Wiederschaun!
Tim
berndm
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Posted: Monday, December 28, 2015 - 03:14 PM UTC
Hello Timothy, a while ago i had a similar problem with Photo Bucket, they mailed me, that i have run out of bandwith and my pictures became invisible !
But after some time they were back.
Hope this helps

Bernd
timmyp
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Posted: Monday, December 28, 2015 - 05:24 AM UTC
Crap! None of the images showed up. Any ideas, anyone? Like I said in previous post, I'm hosting the pictures on PHotobucket...what should I be doing here? I followed the same procedure as if kitmaker gallery was hosting my photos.

Thanks!!
timmyp
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Posted: Monday, December 28, 2015 - 05:22 AM UTC
Haven't put a post in a while, mostly because I'm trying to finish an on-line "Introduction to Engineering Mechanics" course before the end of the year.

Been working on step 9 of the instructions (still!), so here are some thoughts & pictures. It seems I've run out of space on the kitmaker gallery, so images from now on are posted on photobucket.

Parts 88-206-187 & 188: These make up the ship's wheel. It's a little unclear how far the axle (206) is supposed to get into the wheel (either of part 88). There was also some molding marks, that if not removed, give you a false sense of how far the axle is supposed to be pushed into the wheel. The bottom line, make sure the small pins on the axle protrude far enough out of the wheel so they will fit into the upright parts (187 & 188).

The galley stack was mostly painted while still on the sprue; after the paint dried, I cut both parts off, cemented them together, and did touch-up painting. It fits a bit snug into place on the deck.

For parts 192-193-194-195, which are the mainstay bitts, again, I painted the bulk of these parts while still on the sprue, then assembled them, touch-up with paint, then cemented into position. A little hint: on the deck, try not to paint the area that is about a quarter-inch behind the slots that they'll fit into; it'll save you the later hassle of trying to scrape the paint off, as well as scraping off the wood-grain molded into the deck. In this picture, the bitts are the black upright parts in the foreground:

[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/TimmyP_2006/HMS%20Victory%20step%209%20pictures/DSC00031.jpg" BORDER="0">[/img]




The binnacle housing (parts 384) and the binnacle: why in the world did Heller mold the housing in clear plastic? They really could have molded that in the light tan color that a lot of the other parts are molded in. Besides, the instructions say to paint the housing light brown, and the binnacle itself bronze (I used gold), so what's the point in making it a clear part? Also, this image (below) shows the cabin walls...I think Heller could have helped this process along by making yellow decals that are put on the cabin walls, instead of having to painstakingly mask & paint things. That way, I could have slopped the dark brown paint on the walls, and have the decals cover up the excess. Also, in the instructions, they have parts 229 and 228 backwards - part 228 is actually a port-side cabin wall, and 228 is a starboard-side wall.

[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/TimmyP_2006/HMS%20Victory%20step%209%20pictures/DSC00034.jpg" BORDER="0">[/img]

The ship's bell, its supports, and the belfry (parts 120, 95 and 208) went together pretty well. When doing the painting of the bell supports, it's probably best to hold the part by the "foot", instead of the side with a pin. The foot side sits between the small bumps on the deck at the ship's waist. It is also worthwhile to see how the foot fits between those bumps; I had to do some filing to get the feet to fit snugly in between those bumps. And further note, the bell itself sits between the support structure, not on top of the crossmembers. So when painting, keep the inside of the crossmember free of paint; you can touch-up after getting the bell in place. Also, the holes in the deck that receive the pins were tight; 1-1/2 turns with the X-Acto knife took care of that. Once all that is completed, the belfry goes on top; in my initial test-fittings, it looked like the belfry would overhang a little bit on all 4 corners, both in front-to-back and side-to-side. However, when I put the belfry on, I though I had it centered, but it turns out, there's no overhang on the port side, and there's a lot of overhang on the starboard side. In this image below, we see the galley stack (foreward of the belfry) and the belfry:

[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/TimmyP_2006/HMS%20Victory%20step%209%20pictures/DSC00033.jpg" BORDER="0">[/img]



I also finished painting & installing the beakhead bulkhead (part 344). Heller says to install it first, then "decorate" it as shown in the instructions. Hint to the wise: there is NO WAY you're going to be able to do a decent paint job on this part if you cement it in place before completely painting it.

[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/TimmyP_2006/HMS%20Victory%20step%209%20pictures/DSC00032.jpg" BORDER="0">
[/img]

Just finished painting and cementing the weather cleats. Still painting part 35, of which there are 18, and they go around the main hatch opening in the deck. Have started painting the chain plates. The below pictures show where those weather cleats go, and after one has been positioned:

[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/TimmyP_2006/HMS%20Victory%20step%209%20pictures/Weather%20cleat%20position.jpg" BORDER="0">[/img]

[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/TimmyP_2006/HMS%20Victory%20step%209%20pictures/Weather%20cleat%20in%20position.jpg" BORDER="0">[/img]
timmyp
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Posted: Sunday, November 29, 2015 - 10:31 PM UTC
So last weekend, I managed to fit the upper deck into the hull - no easy task! I didn't realize it as I was trying to squeeze the deck into place, but I broke part of the railing on the hull. I don't think I'll try to fix it, for fear of completely breaking that piece of railing away from the hull, but I might change my mind in the future.

After doing some test runs about how to get the deck into place, I came upon the idea of cutting some pieces of wood to the width of certain places on the deck - the bow and stern weren't too much of a problem, it was the middle part of the deck that was the problem. Here's a picture of the pieces I cut (well, they're Medium Density Fiberboard (MDF), not actual wood). I wrote on each piece where they line-up compared to the deck, so I wouldn't forget what goes where!


And here's a couple of pictures of the ship, before I put the top deck into place. I mostly just wanted to document the pillars that had been put in place, because I wasn't sure how much of them would be seen before the deck went into place. I scraped the paint off the top of these parts, in the event that I would be able to get some glue on them before the deck went in. It turned out, I didn't put glue on the top of these parts, because mostly, the time it took to get the deck in place would have probably dried out the glue, and there's a curvature to the deck, where it doesn't even really touch those parts.





And now, a pic of the deck in place:



I used the lower part of the foremast and mizzenmast to make sure the deck was aligned fore-and-aft. To get the deck in place, I first lined it up with one edge laying on the ledge that is molded into the hull, and then let the other edge hang over the hull. It was at this pint that I put the bow & stern blocks into place, to widen the hull some more. It turns out, I didn't use all the blocks I had cut, simply because there was too much overhang of the deck outside of the hull, and I had no where to put the block against to help widen the hull. I only used the bow & stern blocks, and I was able to get the deck in place to about 40%. I thought I was stuck in the process, when I had the brilliant idea to use a knife blade as a kind of lever, to push the hull out to get the deck to slide in to place. Well, it wasn't so much about getting the deck to "slide in to place", as it was "Dammit, this better work!". But use the edge of the deck as a levereage point, and pushing outwards on the hull from the inside with the knife blade, the deck suddenly popped into place. I probably broke the railing when I was using the knife.

Here's a view from the bow:


And from the stern:



And here's some different angles of the same thing:



In the image below, I scraped away the black paint on the crossmembes on the open area of the deck, as this is where the small boat holder things get glued in. Since the instructions don't have you put the boats in place until after the rigging is done, I figured now would be a real good time to clean the paint up!






Oh yeah, my two cents about masking tape: When I was painting the gratings and stuff on the top deck, I masked everything off with that blue tape from 3M. That stuff is really worthless. I had a lot of paint run off and underneath areas I had taped off, thus making me do a lot of back-and-forth touch ups between the deck color and the black/dark brown used on the gratings and stuff. So for me, I'm sticking with plain ol' masking tape in the future!
TRM5150
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Posted: Sunday, November 29, 2015 - 10:06 PM UTC
Nice work on the carriage...and the jig! Nothing like having the right duel purpose tool at hand to make your life easier!
timmyp
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Posted: Sunday, November 29, 2015 - 10:00 PM UTC
Well, I thought I'd take a minute and talk a little about a jig I made, so that it would be easy to place all the cannons. I needed to make the jig so that I'd know where the cannon would be placed within the gunport, and also where to scratch off the paint on the deck so the glue would stick.

So here's a pic of the jig itself - it's made out of a tongue depressor.


And here's a pic where I'm checking the fit of the cannon:



And a pic without a cannon in place on the jig:


And here, the jig is placed against one of the lower decks:

And lastly, a picture showing the jig being used repeatedly:


Making this little jig really helped a lot when it came time to glue the cannons to the lower decks. After I got the cannons glued into position, I went back with some red paint and did a touch-up on the deck, where too much paint was scraped away. The sad thing is, no one will ever see the painted decks, as there isn't much light getting into those lower decks...I probably could have just skipped painting the decks, and saved myself a lot of time!

I don't know if I mentioned this elsewhere, but before I glued the cannon barrels to the carriage, I used a 1/16th inch drill bit, chucked in an electric drill, to drill-out each barrel, and get a consistent bore hole on the barrels. I did this before I glued the barrel to the carriage. I also used an emory board to smooth the front of the barrels (there were some burrs after drilling, as well as a little bit of mis-matching when assembling the barrels) and give them all a pretty consistent look.
timmyp
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Posted: Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 04:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Tim,

that'S quite a project!! It took me a second to realize that you put the rudder in front of an inch-scale...that really makes it BIG!

I have to admit that I haven't figured out the exact function of these loops yet, but that might well be due to my limited knowledge of technology and function of the ships of the line of that area...looks certainly like lots of work.

I hope you manage to install the next deck as you plan - fingers crossed!!

Looking forward to see more!

Cheers,

Jan



Hi Jan,

Yes, the rudder IS big - 120.65 mm/4.75 inches. It's why I took pictures of it; I don't think I've ever seen a rudder that big.

Making those loops wasn't hard, but it was time-consuming, and finger-cramping! As I was doing all the assembly in step 8, I though I was cruising along pretty good, until I got the part about installing the loops (which were supposed to be made back in step 1!). So then, it was stop all assembly, make the loops, then get them installed. If I remember correctly, there's a total of 64 loops to be made.

So here's a word to the wise about getting the loops installed: as I was painting the hull, I saw that there were a lot of pre-formed holes in hull, which were obviously going to accept either a rigging line, or the post of a ring, or something. However, I also noticed that some of the holes weren't clear all the way through; I had to open them up. I used my X-acto blade to open the holes, and by doing that, some holes got opened up more than others (I should have used one of my drill bits to get a consistent hole size). The net effect was that for some loops, since the hole was just a bit too big, I had to tie some more knots in the loop, so I wouldn't pull the loop competely through the hull. And just to be sure everything stayed in place, all the loops were cemented to the hull (from the inside) with a drop of super glue. Another aspect of pulling the loops through the hull, was just trying to get the thickness of the thread into the hole initially, and then get it pushed through enough to where I could grab it on the outside of the hull and pull it through. And yes, sometimes I'd get a loop through the hole, but then let go of it with my tweezers, and watch it come sliding back out!

that was a long explanation, wasn't it?

I'm finishing up painting the topside deck; it's some fine details and touch-up that I've got to do. I think I decided on a way to spread the hull open enough to get the deck installed: I'm going to cut some lengths of wood to spread the hull enough to get the deck in place. However, there's only about 3 or 4 places I can put the wood spreaders in, and still get them out after installing the deck.

And there's another story about the rudder, but I'll discuss that in a later post.
JJ1973
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Posted: Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 10:34 AM UTC
Tim,

that'S quite a project!! It took me a second to realize that you put the rudder in front of an inch-scale...that really makes it BIG!

I have to admit that I haven't figured out the exact function of these loops yet, but that might well be due to my limited knowledge of technology and function of the ships of the line of that area...looks certainly like lots of work.

I hope you manage to install the next deck as you plan - fingers crossed!!

Looking forward to see more!

Cheers,

Jan
timmyp
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Posted: Friday, November 13, 2015 - 04:06 AM UTC
So today's postings are about the rudder, deck crossmembers, and making & installing "the loops".

Here's the images of the rudder. I took this photo the way I did, because I wanted to show how long the rudder is. And it was no picnic trying to paint this thing copper, on top of the red plastic.








Fitting the lowest gun deck. Several crossmembers are fitted before the deck is installed; unfortunately, not each crossmember fit correctly.


Here's a pic of the crossmember before trimming it to size:



Here are the crossmembers in place:







The two deck halves didn't fit well into the hull, and I had to do some shaving of the outer edges to make them fit. But once that was done, it left a gap down the center. Of course, with the other decks on top of this one, no one will ever know that there's a gap.


In the above image, the white stuff on the deck, coming out from the centerline, is masking tape that is used on the underside of the deck: I tried to line-up the deck with where the crossmembers are, and the tape is there so that I wouldn't paint the underside that would ultimately lay on top of the crossmembers. But I figured I should go ahead and practice filling the gap with putty, so even if it turns out to be a bad job, at least I'll get a little practice with the putty.

Here's the lowest deck before putty:


And here it is after putty & paint:



The white squares around the edge of the deck is where I've scraped the paint away in preparation of cementing the cannons in place (more about that later).

And now, what Heller simply calls the "loops": these are loops that attach to the...well, I'm not sure what they're called, but I'll say the loops attach to the chainplates, which in turn are attached to the deadeyes. Making of these loops is actually in step 1 of the instructions, but I didn't make them until the instructions called for them to be installed (which is step . After I started installing the loops, I got to thinking: does the length of the loop mean that is how far it should extend out from the hull, or does that mean how long the loop is, from where it attaches to the inside of the hull? IF it's supposed to be how far it extends from the hull, then all of my loops are at least 2 mm short (or whatever the thickness of the hull is). So anyway, here's the pix & text about it:

The instructions say to make a jig using cardboard. Of course, they don't suggest what kind or thickness of cardboard, so I used the following box cardboard:



The rectangular cut-out on the left is going to be the jig.

So here's pictures of the tool in use. The easy thing to do here was to make the longest loops first, cut off the appropriate width of cardboard for the next set of shorter loops, then do that again, and again, and again. Since each succeeding loop was bout 2 mm shorter than the previous one, it was pretty easy to get the lengths correct.







And now, some pictures of the loops installed:







So that's all for today's postings. I'll upload some pictures about the little device I made to locate the cannons on deck, and where to scrape the paint away so the cannons can be cemented to the deck. I have also found a "small" problem with fitting the stern gallery around the rudder post; more on that later. Right now, back to painting the upper most deck with a second coat of paint. And for those following along at home, I think I've come up with a way to widen the hull enough to get the top deck into place - right now, with one side fitted into the hull, the other side of the deck hangs about a quarter-inch over the hull. But more on that later.

Thanks for taking the time to read my musings! Comments (good, bad, ugly) are appreciated.

Timmy P.
timmyp
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Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2015 - 01:06 PM UTC
Hey Tim,

I'm way ahead of you - I covered the entire base in paper to prevent further damage! I had discovered that there was a sweat/water stain, as well as some spilled super glue on the base, and even some paint stains! so after sanding down the defects, I decided to cover the entire base so no further mishaps would occur. I guess in the next series of photos I post might show the base wrapped in paper.

Thanks for your input! It's definitely a word to the wise!
TimReynaga
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MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
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Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2015 - 01:45 AM UTC
Looking good Tim! A suggestion if I may - if you are going to use that nicely routed wood base as your working platform as you proceed with the build, covering the edges with masking tape will save repairs of the bumps and nicks that will happen as you handle the model during construction.

I will be watching with interest!