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Armor/AFV: What If?
For those who like to build hypothetical or alternate history versions of armor/AFVs.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Landkreuzer P-1000 Ratte
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 07:34 PM GMT+7
I haven't been able to get any bench time; remodel and construction in the basement and redoing the master bedroom.

So, in my search mode, I've been trying to source ideas for the Heinrich bay (machine shop type things and figures [gads! figures ] and equipment). I don't want it to be overly cluttered, but it needs some life. Personally, I see this as a dio in a model in a dio (if that makes sense). And I will build this with that in mind. i.e. I will make a place for the Heinrich's bay in the Ratte and build the bay as a separate piece. Once done, it'll slide right in.

I'm also seeking images and ideas for the engine deck. Supposedly this thing may have had two submarine engines providing the power. If you look at a sub vs a tank, and consider the venting and intake...they're worlds apart. (probably because the sub ran mostly on batteries unless they were surfaced, running the diesels to charge said batteries)

I want the engine deck to look good. But it needs to "make sense" with regards to intake and output and cooling and access from above, et cetera.

I've been looking at the engine decks of Tigers, KTs, JTs, Panthers, and the like. They all have in common (generally) the four air inlet grills, two air outlet fans, and the access hatch. Would it make sense for the Ratte to have something similar, but more of them? Barring any space issues, would it make sense for the Ratte to have FOUR sets of these; two for each sub engine?

Thoughts? Would one or two (or more) with the crew compartment heaters installed make sense?

Last question before my brain goes even number: Exhaust. How many "exhaust pipes" would two diesel sub engines need? All the big German tanks have two it appears. Two sets of two, three, four?

Brain-fried with details. It's gotta be "real" you know, and make sense. Need your help folks.

-Mike

p.s. My head is already working on the hydraulics of the Heinrich bay door.
BigfootV
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Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 11:22 PM GMT+7
Hey Mike,

According to the plans drawn up, this beast was to use either 2x MAN V12Z34 24 Cyl. or 8x MB 501's 20 cyl. engines.

Yes, I'm being Capt. Obvious . Anyways, The exhaust was going to be a snorkel set up, How many pipes per engine? I would guess would be around 4 per engine.
2 to breath, since their buried inside, and 2 exhaust.

Inlet fans on the rear deck to cool the thing, around 6 per engine (guessing). Guess in crew up to 41. So maybe two crew areas?

Ain't paper panzer a

Just throwing ideas out there.

See ya in the funnies.................
barkingdigger
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Monday, May 05, 2014 - 09:25 AM GMT+7
Hmmm. The exhaust & intakes are a chasllenge! With something this big, they had more than enough room to build a proper engine room and to channel the exhausts into a big muffler in its own compartment inside, with maybe just some simple air grilles up top for the gases to escape & cooling air to come in, but that'd be boring! (U-boats don't have fancy engine decks, but then again they are roomy enough that you don't need to reach in from outside through a hatch to change the valves...)

Instead, if they wanted to maximise cargo capacity in the lower hull I'd assume they would use standard parts from the Tiger/Panther/KT series mounted up on high, with enough fans & intakes per engine to provide sufficient effect. That means a carpet of round fan housings and rectangular grilles on the deck - much more visually pleasing than plain no-slip decking. If they used two U-Boat engines then you need one or two BIG longitudinal access plates for removal, with the grilles & fans in lines down either side of them. But if they used banks of ordinary "little" tank engines you might just graft together a bunch of complete KT engine decks with hatches & fans in place, to represent whole tank engine compartments forming a ceiling to the cargo area below. (Perhaps rotated 90 degrees so the engines sat sideways across, rather than in-line? Suggesting they all fed into a central bank of electric generators down the centre-line of the compartments?) Both would look cool...

As for exhausts, I'm guessing a few BIG pipes, rather than lots of little ones, since pipe is cheap - exiting from the rear plate. Should be plenty of room to have them along the top edge, with space for loading-bay doors etc below.
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Monday, May 05, 2014 - 06:34 PM GMT+7
Thanks Brian and Tom. I like the looks of the decks with the four air inlet grills, two air outlet fans, and the access hatch. Alas, that's too many kits for me to try and get only to butcher them for the engine deck (considering I need 6+[?]).

Any ideas on an AM company that makes something like this? Resin or plastic is fine. PE will be easy to find for the screens.

Mike
BigfootV
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Posted: Monday, May 05, 2014 - 10:20 PM GMT+7
Hey Mike,

Just had an off the wall idea. Since this is the first build in this scale, have you though about making master molds????
Think about it..........LOL. I mean if they did a Dora Railway Gun in 1/35th.........Hmmmmm.

See ya in the funnies...........
barkingdigger
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 08:51 AM GMT+7
Not sure about affordable AM decks, but you could try making a simple rubber mould and resin-casting the eight decks. Not sure how much the old Alumilite starter kit (the one with the RTV rubber and small bottles of resin mix in one box) goes for nowadays, but I figure you should be able to get the whole lot from one kit. Best of all, you can then still build the KT kit as a tank, because there's no need to butcher it!
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 08:40 PM GMT+7
There's a member and bud here in town that can cast. I'll see if he'd be interested in a project smallish project.

Brian, I dunno 'bout that. Be interesting for sure. Heh!

Mike
barkingdigger
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 10:55 AM GMT+7
If you use this as a master for resin kits of the Ratte in 1:35, I'd hate to pay the postage!
BigfootV
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Posted: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 09:00 PM GMT+7
You know you'd buy one Tom.
barkingdigger
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Posted: Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 04:42 AM GMT+7
Yeah, but how would I hide a resin kit box the size of a coffin from the missus?

(Suppose I could convince here not to look under the cloth at our "new" coffee table... )
BigfootV
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Posted: Friday, May 09, 2014 - 05:21 PM GMT+7
Not to mention the hole in the bank account Tom.
You could tell her the barrels are build in salt/pepper shakers.

Sorry Mike, back to you.
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Friday, May 09, 2014 - 08:56 PM GMT+7
No worries Guys...This build is about all of us. The input I've received is worthy of a Commendation. Whether it's technical or in the name of fun, it all counts to me. And a 100 pounds of resin is...well...a lot. :/

Until the last slab of 1/8" stock is on, there will be every name put inside the hull of those that have assisted and backed this project of mine.

I can now say that because the Heinrich bay will require that IT goes in before the outside armor goes on. No other way to do this due to height/width restrictions of the track housing and engine bay. Not a problem. A minor challenge I look forward to.

Oh, I've started cutting out the other track housing's sides and the armored doors for the Heinrich. While cutting the doors I had an "accident." I'll post a pic of the table-saw-butchered-piece....and maybe what it did to my belly after the kick back. Hurt...a lot...and marked me good!

Mike
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Posted: Friday, May 09, 2014 - 09:28 PM GMT+7
Tom, Brian,

There is NO way this could be a Resin kit in 1/35th. NO way. Too costly. It'd have to be like the Dora...plastic and PE.

With that said, there'd be the other "cross current" conditions to consider; Verlinden Kugel's, Dragon MAUS', Heng Long road wheels......unless some company wanted to devise their own exterior armaments, this would die while still in someone's briefcase. Still have to consider the Engine Deck, which...really doesn't matter as so many have produced the Tiger, KT, Panther, et al...decks...a resin cast is not a worry.

When I started this, it was, to my knowledge, the ONLY 1/35th Ratte in the works. Alas, someone sold one on eBay? I'm suspicious of this, but, regardless....I'll build mine...it may well be the second one out there...but it will be the finest.

Mike
barkingdigger
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 10:42 AM GMT+7
Hey Mike, no problem on the full-resin kit jibes! (I know resin dust is a health hazard, but nobody ever said anything about the risk of getting crushed under a part-built kit... )

Your Ratte is an exceptional beast (especially if it has already drawn blood), and I have no doubt you'll beam with pride the first time you recover from hefting it onto a competition table! And we'll all be glad we could play a part in getting you to where you can show off the finished model. Personally I'm just trying to figure a way to get to see it in the "plastic" - maybe if the gods make the planets align with my annual holiday to the States and a nearby model show? I ASSUME you'll be sending in photos and text so we can make a Feature article for Armorama? (Build logs fade away to the back pages of the forum, but a Feature is forever...)

Stay safe, and keep up the good work!
BigfootV
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Posted: Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 11:12 AM GMT+7
Hey Mike,

I Apologize for the jabs too Bro.

OUCH on the kick back bro! Gut shots are no fun. Sounds like it knocked the wind out of you as well. Don't let the Ratte bite you too much, you'll go rabid on us! LOL.

I total agree with Tom that a plastic kit would be cool, and as far as I know, still the only one being build out of sheet styrene in 1/35th.

BTW, When was that other "Ratte" sold on Evilbay?? If it did exist at all.

Keep it going bro.
See ya in the funnies................
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 - 06:42 AM GMT+7
Ah, kick back. It's healing now. But I have my solution - a back brace worn reversed (back part in front). Clever, no? Heheh.

Seems my "Subscribe" function no longer works. Bummer for sure.

Tom, I of course have all the pictures. Text for a Feature? Hmmm. We'll have to discuss what would be needed for that. And, once done, I'll have an local friend (won many awards) scope it out and see if it would meet show criteria.

Brian, the other Ratte was sold about a month, month and a half ago? 200 Euro or so? The link to the auction is in the thread somewhere...need to find that again.

The Ratte has taken back seat to the two rooms I'm working on. I hope to get the other sides cut, trimmed, and drilled proper this weekend. Fingers crossed!

Mike
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Saturday, May 17, 2014 - 09:40 PM GMT+7
And...my garage half is now cleaned up enough (actually quite nice now) that I can pull the table saw out and right properly cut out the sides (without damaging my oversized belly).

That will happen between finishing the trim upstairs and doing the trim downstairs.

Back in the game.

Mike
BigfootV
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Posted: Saturday, May 17, 2014 - 10:32 PM GMT+7
Good to hear Mike that things are rolling along nicely.

See ya in the funnies...........
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Monday, June 02, 2014 - 08:26 PM GMT+7
Well..."back in the game" may have been premature. A lot going on in and out of the house; upstairs room is finished. Downstairs room is taking some time. And, we're putting in a big rose garden for Karin.

However, I did rough cut the sides for the other running gear this evening. Jig saw for the initial cut followed up by a clean cut along the long edges on the table saw. I now have a bench sander that I'll use to clean up the shorter edges.

I've also been reinforcing the inside of the turret so that the top plates will have something to rest on.

I'm going to see about finding some kind of sighting device to put on top of the turret. Pretty sure I saw something in 1/35th that'll work...for an 88 maybe?

I received 74 road wheels last week. Hmmm. There's a heck of a mess with that. I received 74 outer road wheel "outer" halves. No inners that the outer connects to...and that's critical because the inner is what the axle connects to.

The owner of the shop is checking with his Chinese source (Heng Long I assume) to see about getting this unfudged. What a bummer (for now). I "could" jury-rig them, but that's a whole lot of what I don't want to dork around with...

Mike
BigfootV
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Posted: Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 12:50 PM GMT+7
Update bump Mike.......

See ya in the funnies...........

TacFireGuru
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Posted: Monday, June 16, 2014 - 08:36 PM GMT+7
A bit of an update finally.

Working on the turret (between building my 1:1 AR, the basement room, the upstairs room, and a rose garden ).

Pretty much the rough in's:



 photo Turret2_zpsc0866ecd.jpg



The front and the roof above it will be redone to close up the gaps, edges properly angled, and put together so it can be removed until I get the barrels and their mounts done.

Some gaps and overhangs, but that's okay...they'll be covered up (I have an idea - lead sheet and rivets maybe, or more plastic - not 100% sure yet).

Slow but sure between the other things on Momma's list.

Mike
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Posted: Monday, June 16, 2014 - 09:17 PM GMT+7
As if I had the time or the money---

I started thinking of an American response to the Ratte:

What if the Ratte had entered production and service --say 3-4 built. One of them turned up at Salerno and repulsed the invasion. Americans decide they need to build a counter.

By that time in the war (1943) the USS Illinois BB-65 was on the stocks.
What if the decision was made to use the material from that ship to build the land battleship Abraham Lincoln.
(To placate southern opinions the second land ship built from material for the USS Kentucky was named Daniel Boone)
One 16"/56cal gun in a casement (built from one of the original turrets?), two dual 5"/38 turrets on the front corners.
Dual purpose: surface and anti aircraft.

But I think in order to cross the Atlantic it will need to be amphibious: with sections fore and aft that give it a flared hull but which detach at the beach after the treads touch bottom.

16"/56 cal comes out to 22" in 1/35.
Figure at least 12-15 inches wide and to get proper length to beam ratio; probably work out to 40" long when fully assembled.
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 05:40 AM GMT+7
Interesting idea and back story.

I like the idea of the droppable hull portions. Thinking the Lincoln and Boone would need to have two 16-inchers though. The 5-inchers would be neat looking and would outgun the MAUS'. You'd have to add a couple quad-50's to it.

Mike
Removed by original poster on 06/17/14 - 04:04:00 (GMT).
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Friday, June 20, 2014 - 10:46 PM GMT+7
Does anyone know of a company that produces this style of rivet (round with a square hole):



Worst case I guess, I can use regular round rivets and drill a round hole in it. At 1/35th, I don't think anyone would pay that much attention to them(?).

Recut the front of the turret and I'll be recutting the upper front piece tomorrow. More or less figured out the placement of the three openings for the barrels. That'll be huge to me because I can then figure out the way to mount the barrels and get a design done for a 3D printer.

Mike