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Armor/AFV: What If?
For those who like to build hypothetical or alternate history versions of armor/AFVs.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Landkreuzer P-1000 Ratte
barkingdigger
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ARMORAMA
#013
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Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2013 - 07:13 AM UTC
I've heard the big chiefs desperately wanted to keep Hitler in power after about 1943, when it started to become obvious that his personal intervention in the German war effort was doing more to aid the Allies than anything else!
Bavarian
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Bayern, Germany
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Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 06:47 AM UTC
Paul, you are right with everything you are stating about the usability of the Ratte or other Projects. Fritz Hahn's book states that those projects were usually done for the so called "UK" stamp. UK stands for "unabkömmlich". If someone had a form stating this he could not be drafted.

Bavarian
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Sunday, December 08, 2013 - 10:39 AM UTC
On Friday I received a some 1/16th King Tiger gear. A couple of sections of track and an inner and outer road wheel set (one each) and some other parts.

I sat at my bench fiddling around with three different scale bits of running gear.

1/35th KT Friuls
1/25th Panther track and sprocket
1/16th KT road wheels
1/16th KT track

The KT track is truly huge compared to the 1/35th which lends me to believe it would require a crane/jib just to move one link and the fact that it's (in 1/35th) 6 feet across. IMO, too big. Two runs would look cool, but it's size won't work.

The 1/25th Panther track, sprockets, and idler...with the KT road wheels does look the part. At about 3 feet across, I would need three runs to a side. Sourcing the road wheels is no problem. Sourcing the track and other parts? May be buying a few kits just for that. The thickness of the track seems "right" for this too...not too under scale and not over scale.



The Friul KT tracks are about the same width as the Panther tracks, but a bit thinner. Oddly enough, the Panther sprocket will fit, but needs a spacer so that both sides of the teeth engage. That's easy enough. Sourcing 1/35th KT tracks would be a breeze I bet...rubber band or indy. Can't see spending $45 on a set of Friuls if I can get the other types. Worst case, the Friuls ARE cheaper than an entire 1/25th Panther kit (of which I'd only use the track, sprockets, and idlers).



Let me know your opinions...nothing is firm but the KT road wheels. And I won't use the inner version, only the outer.

Mike

TacFireGuru
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Posted: Saturday, December 14, 2013 - 05:47 AM UTC
Just ordered enough 1/16th KT road wheels to do one run (all they had) with a couple extra to get the spacing done for three runs. And thanks to a Gentleman who's been quietly following my build, I have about 14 sets of 1/25 Panther track...more than I thought! Guesstimate that it'll take about three sets per run. Heck of a good start!!

Once these arrive, I can start the layout of the hull tub. I'll be using .125 (1/8th inch) plastic sheet. Some areas will be layered where thickness of the armor will be seen. Haven't decided if this will be built like a tank made of large plates of armor (like Allied armor) or interleaved plates (like German armor) similar to the glacis of the KT. Could be interesting.

Mike
LeftyDan
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Posted: Saturday, December 14, 2013 - 06:23 AM UTC
Ah, I've missed this topic. It's good to see how much progress you're making on this.
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Saturday, December 14, 2013 - 09:30 AM UTC
Good to see you Dan! Come a bit of a way, eh? Oh, lost out on the Kugles....guy stopped selling them in the middle of the auction. Dang!

Anyhow...I've laid out the rough for the road wheels. OY, it's a biggin'!



Please, ignore the bench mess. Yes, that is a pile of 1/25th Panther track. Look to the edge of the bench. From the outer edge of the Left rr to the outer edge of the Right rr, is 36 inches. Drawings showed 14 rr's...this is 16. I'm good.

Mike

p.s. I think it's just really dawned on me how huge this is.
LeftyDan
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Posted: Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 04:18 PM UTC
Yeah, It's going to be big.

At that size and scale you should just mount some Ruger 10/22s in the guns for the 'realistic' bullet shooting action. Thou at 1/35th 8mm is the scale.

I know this is far ahead, but have you considered your shelf area yet? I also have a slight concern about plastic holding up the weight of the model. I'd consider using steel rod to support the torsion bars, you might want to consider that for the tracks. McMasterCarr sells it in a variety of gauges.
Bonaparte84
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Posted: Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 10:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Oh, lost out on the Kugles....guy stopped selling them in the middle of the auction. Dang!



So you'll reconsider the Coelian?
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Friday, December 20, 2013 - 12:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

So you'll reconsider the Coelian?



Hehehehe! Well, I have one Kugel right now. I will certainly be getting a second. I have one Coelian in my stash, and getting a second would be a breeze. Most options are still open. Still early with plenty of time to decide.

@Dan

Quoted Text

I'd consider using steel rod to support the torsion bars



Using a lot of 1/8th inch thick sheet for this, so, yep...it'll be 'fortified' and strengthened. I'll post a drawing of what I envision it'll look like on the bottom side soon.

Mike

P.S. Going to see where a 60cm Flakscheinwerfer might fit.
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Friday, December 20, 2013 - 12:49 PM UTC
My 'thoughts' on how I will install the road wheels/axles. Not to scale, but I think you'll get the concept.



Mike
nng-nng
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2013 - 04:29 AM UTC
seems to be a quite easy solution, perfect for building something in scale, but in reality, from an engineeres point of view....horrible

But anyway... ceep it comming, you re doing good
barkingdigger
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2013 - 09:29 AM UTC
Hi Mike,

Scary, but it's the only solution based on the drawings! I suspect if they had pursued the plan they'd eventually have to add extra bearings between the three tracks, and definitely a bearing at the outboard end of the axle.

I second the suggestion of metal axles to avoid buckling under its own weight...
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2013 - 12:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

...from an engineeres point of view....horrible



LOL! No doubt! Just needs to look the part!

Mike
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Friday, December 27, 2013 - 01:41 AM UTC
A set of 24 KT outer road wheels arrived in time for Christmas. Unfortunately that was all they had until they restock. Fortunately it's enough for me to start the official layout of the hull tub.

These road wheels are a bit different; pre-painted a greenish color with the outer edge painted black. However, the lip seems thin enough that once I repaint I'm comfortable that they'll represent the steel rims.

Going to check the LHS to see if they have any 1/8th inch sheet stock in stock. If not, I've found a reasonably priced seller through eBay (12" x 24" sheets).

Also, coming along with that 60cm Flakscheinwerfer from AFV Club. Not certain where or if it'll be installed, but I think it'd look neat and make sense.

Mike
BigfootV
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Posted: Friday, December 27, 2013 - 06:57 AM UTC
Mike,
Long time no hear from. So this is what you've been up to! Good God man! LOL.

Anyways, figured you might be interested in this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQEPY...feature=fvwrel

It's suppose to be in 1/35th scale.

Check it out. Oh, U-bolts might work for holding rods to hull. Just a thought.

See ya in the funnies....................
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Friday, December 27, 2013 - 12:30 PM UTC
Hey Brian! 'Sup big guy!!?

1/35th P1000. Yeppers. Bits and pieces, parts and whatnot...coming together. Design is in the head, but that'll change as soon as I have some 1/8th inch sheet stock...then it becomes reality. LOL, and some more cash!

Regardless Brother, good to finally hear from you again. We'll have to catch up!

Mike
BigfootV
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Posted: Friday, December 27, 2013 - 12:45 PM UTC
Yep, I was lurking around when I bumped into your tread. LOL.

Hope you liked the link.

Yes, agreed, cash is a challenge these days.
We'll talk soon.

See ya in the funnies...............
sdk10159
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Posted: Friday, December 27, 2013 - 01:01 PM UTC

Quoted Text



Anyways, figured you might be interested in this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQEPY...feature=fvwrel

It's suppose to be in 1/35th scale.




The link doesn't work.

Steve
BigfootV
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Posted: Friday, December 27, 2013 - 01:15 PM UTC
Steve,
Thanks for that. Wasn't sure if it did. I'll see if I can find it again and double check. Sorry for brief hijack Mike. LOL.

Try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQEPYGPxcBY
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Friday, December 27, 2013 - 02:13 PM UTC
That one worked Brian. Seen it. My plan/belief is that mine is going to be more "worldly" (though truly hypothetical). Massive main guns. Real Anti-Tank defense. Reasonable Anti-Aircraft defense, ground troop defense. Toss in a Tiger...some scouts (yeah, maybe, maybe not).

I think the followers of this thread will dig what I got going...and yeah, I do listen to the input. I'm even contemplating Coelian's!

Mike
BigfootV
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Posted: Friday, December 27, 2013 - 02:31 PM UTC
Cool, cool.
Any ideas on the 280 gun? Would a 1/25th Tiger I 88 mm work? LOL

See ya in the funnies.............
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Saturday, December 28, 2013 - 07:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Any ideas on the 280 gun?



I have the measurements from a scratch built 1/200th turret. Those measurements will be easy enough to convert into 1/35th.

The two barrels may be a minor challenge, though I'm sure there's a machinist in town that can replicate them provided I give them good dimensions.

Mike
corsair924
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Posted: Saturday, December 28, 2013 - 09:10 AM UTC
Let us know what the machinist asks for a price on the barrels perhaps there is a demand out here for such a piece.

Either in a repeat of this project or a railway mount.

Other alternative: lots of (high and tech)schools are trying to prepare students for 3-D printing careers.
Might find a student that will do some commission work and at lest create a prototype/master
LeftyDan
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Posted: Saturday, December 28, 2013 - 11:05 AM UTC
Where I work there is a maker bot 3D printer. I'm not the one that uses it, but I know who is. The bot might be able to make a barrel shape, but it can have problems with circular shapes sometimes. It also has issues with smaller shapes leaking up bigger ones. Meaning: It builds in this support webbing under the part which can be a total pain to clean off.

Given good dimensions a talented machinist should be able to make the parts in a few hours, as long as you're not using hardened steel. The lab machinist here does that sort of work all the time. The barrel in scale will be about 18 inches long.
nng-nng
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Posted: Saturday, December 28, 2013 - 01:38 PM UTC
just as a thought... some time ago I saw someone building several 1:35 naval guns, he used radio antennas as barrels (those "solid" silver antenna rods, not the wire..)

But I cant find his buildlogs right now....