Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Sherman Skink
jon_a_its
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Posted: Thursday, June 16, 2016 - 12:58 PM UTC
Jaw dropping work Ian,

Please post some pics of the turret with a coat or two if primer?

Looks like Shapeways/Other Service Providers is the way to go to produce a master.

Might be worth asking Live Resin where or who do their CAD to Resin masters, they appear to be able to get a high quality.

My own experinments with Sketchup have fizzled out, I have had a £5.00 kit scanned with a £120K scanner capable of scanning a car, to produce a unusable STL's that look like shredded wheat!

Back to the digital drawing board with RhinoCAD,
Solidworks & Meshmixer next, see you in a year!
Pave-Hawk
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Posted: Thursday, June 16, 2016 - 01:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Jaw dropping work Ian,

Looks like Shapeways/Other Service Providers is the way to go to produce a master.

Might be worth asking Live Resin where or who do their CAD to Resin masters, they appear to be able to get a high quality.

My own experinments with Sketchup have fizzled out, I have had a £5.00 kit scanned with a £120K scanner capable of scanning a car, to produce a unusable STL's that look like shredded wheat!

Back to the digital drawing board with RhinoCAD,
Solidworks & Meshmixer next, see you in a year!



For mastering a kit shapeways is not too bad. Horribly expensive for a single run though. The turret, base and hatches cost about the maximum I would be willing to pay for a good resin upgrade kit. Add in the guns and "boxes"and it will probably get a little pricey.

I have played with sketchup from time to time, but find it too basic to do really complex shapes easily.
Most of my stuff has been done in older versions of solid works, but lately I have been testing out onshape. Haven't done any real models with it yet but Onshape looks like it might be my future modeller of choice for mechanical modeling.
Pave-Hawk
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Posted: Friday, August 12, 2016 - 04:54 PM UTC
Well I have nearly completed everything.

I need to make some finishing adjustments to the gun, and then see what happens in shapeways as currently the gun is showing significant large bits as too thin for printing.

Hopefully once I finish off the gun that will change.



Made a change to the turret near the lower guns to fix the curvature, it's a little better now, but has some other minor issues as a result. Unfortunately my limited 3D skills, means there is not much I can do to get it perfect.


I will probably upload both styles to shapeways.
tankmodeler
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Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 - 09:43 PM UTC
Iain,

That's come along really nicely! (and congrats on the new baby!)

One of the fallacies of using 3D printing for making a master is that you feel you have to get everything perfect on the 3D Model. You don't.

Get the basic shapes as close as you can and then modify the resulting printed part by hand to add detail that is unprintable or shapes that you didn't get right in the CAD model.

I mean you're still going to want to add some fine details to the turret by hand like the hatch locks and stuff plus the cast texture (which was pretty fine, BTW) so might as well not kill yourself on the CAD model and fix things simply in real life. I think you're well into the diminishing returns stage on the CAD model.

And when you're done, I'm probably going to want a couple. :-)

All the best,

Paul
Pave-Hawk
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 04:46 AM UTC
Thanks Paul.

Getting this kind of shape right in 3D would require more knowledge of solid modelling than I currently have. It may even have been better to do this type of complex shape in a more organic modeller like blender but I have even less experience in that than solid works.
I agree about diminishing returns. At this point it's really only the front curvature that I am not happy with.

So slow progress continues, and I have begun tweaking the shape of the physical model with apoxie.

Needs a little more sanding but I am mostly happy with it.

Have a bit of reference material, so will need to figure out those fine details you mentioned. Have been so focused on the overall shape I had actually forgotten about that sort of thing.
recceboy
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 06:57 AM UTC
Still looking good, keep up the great work..

Anthony
Pave-Hawk
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Posted: Monday, November 28, 2016 - 08:08 AM UTC
The Polsten guns are as done as I can get them.
I have ordered a set from Shapeways to see how they come out.





If they work, I will be making the whole thing available for sale on Shapeways for interested parties, once I figure how best to do it (individual parts listed separately or combine everything into a single file).

Probably won't be cheap, as the small details mean Frosted Ultra Detail is about the only thing they have a chance of successfully printing in.
tankmodeler
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Posted: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 - 11:55 PM UTC
These look really good. You can probably expect to lose part of the last coil of the springs where they are cut off sharp for the rotor. To ease assembly of the whole turret, you might want to add rod in the base of each Polsten and then add a nice hole matching that diameter to the rotors on the turret. I can speak from personal experience that getting all 4 guns to align is fricken near impossible and any aid to achieving that would be an amazing boon to the modeller. If you chose a 2mm rod on the guns and a 2.1 or 2.15mm hole in the rotors with an engagement length of at least 3 or 4 mm, things should line up much better. Id' actually model the holes at 2mm and then physically ream them out to something like 2.15mm (.084 to .085") using a drill bit.


Quoted Text

If they work, I will be making the whole thing available for sale on Shapeways for interested parties, once I figure how best to do it



Have you approached one of the resin kit makers? The New TMD people are frequently looking for new kits/accessories to cast in resin and this looks like a good project. You'd make a couple bucks and the end product would be much less expensive for the rest of us.

Paul
Pave-Hawk
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Posted: Thursday, December 01, 2016 - 06:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

These look really good. You can probably expect to lose part of the last coil of the springs where they are cut off sharp for the rotor. To ease assembly of the whole turret, you might want to add rod in the base of each Polsten and then add a nice hole matching that diameter to the rotors on the turret. I can speak from personal experience that getting all 4 guns to align is fricken near impossible and any aid to achieving that would be an amazing boon to the modeller. If you chose a 2mm rod on the guns and a 2.1 or 2.15mm hole in the rotors with an engagement length of at least 3 or 4 mm, things should line up much better. Id' actually model the holes at 2mm and then physically ream them out to something like 2.15mm (.084 to .085") using a drill bit.


I have thought of doing that but didn't want to get locked in to a gun pose at this stage. Had also thought about designing a jig that would hold all four guns in alignment, but concluded that it would be stupidly complicated.


Quoted Text

Have you approached one of the resin kit makers? The New TMD people are frequently looking for new kits/accessories to cast in resin and this looks like a good project. You'd make a couple bucks and the end product would be much less expensive for the rest of us.

Paul



Actually no, I hadn't realised that was even possible.
I was planning on molding and casting the pieces myself(due to not being sure of the longevity of the printed resin), and had thought about also making copies available for sale that way via eBay. That's not likely to happen till probably at least march next year at my current rate of modelling activity.
Agree that cast versions should be cheaper for others that want them, so I might have to look in to that as an alternate option.
tankmodeler
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Posted: Monday, December 05, 2016 - 01:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I have thought of doing that but didn't want to get locked in to a gun pose at this stage. Had also thought about designing a jig that would hold all four guns in alignment, but concluded that it would be stupidly complicated.



May I suggest that it is easier for someone to shave off the rods and relocate them if they really want to rather than everyone struggling like mad to get them lined up? :-)

If you set them horizontal or very slightly elevated (as they would have been 90+% of the time), you're going to satisfy 95% of the potential customers and likely yourself as well. The hassle and frustration in getting them aligned is not to be underestimated!


Quoted Text

Actually no, I hadn't realised that was even possible.



Most of these companies are looking for product and eager to bring on new pattern makers. Keep your receipts for the 3D printing and you might get that reimbursed as part of the deal. If you are not looking to make a lot of patterns many are quite happy (as long as you are also happy) to trade a pattern for examples of their product.

I've done a number of patterns over the years and the deals are all a bit different, but most of these makers are flexible. And most need/want more product.

Give it a go, the worst that can happen is they say "no thanks."

Paul
Pave-Hawk
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Posted: Friday, December 16, 2016 - 12:04 PM UTC
Got the printed guns.





Far from perfect but I had my suspicions that would be that case as they were borderline for the minimum thickness requirements in a few places.

I should be able to salvage some of the detailed parts but I suspect I will have to scratch the barrel from some small brass tubing and cast that.
tankmodeler
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Posted: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 - 02:09 AM UTC
Yeah, not a surprise on the barrels. Things like that are seldom straight in rapid prototyping.

Going to be tough to cast, too, for a couple reasons. First, unless you get them machined, you're not going to get the slight taper from the real things. Second, they are still thin and hard to cast without supporting braces, which makes them hard to cast...

Have you approached any of the aftermarket guys? They'll frequently do that sort of thing for you as part of the deal to make the master.

Paul
Pave-Hawk
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Posted: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 - 06:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Have you approached any of the aftermarket guys? They'll frequently do that sort of thing for you as part of the deal to make the master.

Paul



Not yet but it's on my list of things to do. Had a look into TMD, but a few of the posts on their website make me wary about contacting them. Last thing I want is to hand over all my work to someone else, only to have it vanish without trace.

Haven't had a lot of time to research other possible outlets yet. Currently finished working last week and now full time caring for an 11 month old, so not a lot of time sit down at the computer or do much modelling.
Pave-Hawk
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 - 12:11 PM UTC
So this is right at the top of my list of projects that I never thought would take so effing long. Unfortunately real life meant I never got to sit down and spend the time this need to get to completion.

But finally it's as done as I can get it. I made a few changes to some of the overall shapes, but nothing that should affect its ability to print, based on my initial print prototypes.
It's far from perfect, but hopefully provides a decent base to work with.

It's also now available for sale for anyone wishing to purchase one, but it's not exactly as cheap as I would like due to frosted ultra detail being the only practical option for material.
I have made some changes to the polsten guns that should make it less prone to barrel warping, by making the barrels solid with just a slight hollowness at the tip. The old version where fully hollow all the way along.

There is also an alternate version of guns without barrels that just require some 3/64 tubing for the barrel and 1/32 tube as mounting pin.


Some initial renders:








Available here: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/spectre-scale
junglejim
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 - 09:17 PM UTC
Thank-you! Ordering soon!

Jim
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 - 09:58 PM UTC
Hi Iain,
Could I ask you to post a list over how the parts should be combined?
There guns are easy to figure out, add barrel from tubing or buy the complete guns.
Turret for Asuka vs for Dragon is also easy but what is the third turret and where do the turret floors fit in?
Asuka vs Dragon implies the presence of a specialised turret base or does it mean that the turret shell shall be used with the turret base from Asuka or Dragon respectively?

/ Robin
Pave-Hawk
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Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 04:27 AM UTC
The turret with no base requires the selection of either of the available separate bases. I originally uploaded the turrets with bases already attached (turret-asuka, and turret Dragon) and those just require the addition of the guns.

Shapeways pricing scheme means it seems to be cheaper to purchase the items individually, I.e. Turret-no base, separate floor for chosen kit, and choice of guns.



So basically the for a full conversion are,

"Turret-asuka" + guns

"Turret-Dragon" +guns

"Turret-no base" + base+ guns (cheapest option according to what I could see, but verify for yourself)
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 04:43 AM UTC
OK
Which base is which?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRRaXV-fg

/ Robin
Pave-Hawk
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Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 05:02 AM UTC
It's in the part description, but ver. 2 is for the asuka kit.
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 05:10 AM UTC
Fantastic effort and result Iain!

I think the prices are totally reasonable given the effort you put into creating the parts.

There are bound to be quite a few Canadian Sherman Skinks being built now.
retiredyank
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Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 03:19 PM UTC
Wonderful news! I will be ordering one of each, soon.
barkingdigger
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Posted: Friday, February 16, 2018 - 02:51 AM UTC
Thanks for making these available - my order is officially "processing"!

Can't wait to start posting build pics...
Pave-Hawk
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Posted: Friday, February 16, 2018 - 03:59 AM UTC
I look forward to seeing what people can do with it.
Pave-Hawk
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 01:44 PM UTC
I've just realised that the alignment holes on the turret for the guns may not be quite correct. I think I have stuffed up the angles between the turret hole and the gun "pin".

Given the size I hope it shouldn't be too hard to make it fit, but heads up for anyone soon to try, that portion may cause a slight issue.
retiredyank
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 05:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I've just realised that the alignment holes on the turret for the guns may not be quite correct. I think I have stuffed up the angles between the turret hole and the gun "pin".

Given the size I hope it shouldn't be too hard to make it fit, but heads up for anyone soon to try, that portion may cause a slight issue.



Is this an issue common to both of the turrets?