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General Ship Modeling: Creating Ship Dioramas
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Vosper Motor Torpedo Boat
AlanL
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Posted: Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 05:11 AM UTC


This one from the IWM Collection for reference.



Hi folks,

In preparation for the forthcoming Italeri kit I thought I'd start on another 20mm Oerlikon Cannon as I'd like to add one to the coming kit.

The 1940s boats were upgraded in 1943/44 so the option to add a forward 20mm exists.

I did come across this picture if anyone can throw any light on it. Wierd paint job.



Anyway made a start on the 20mm, just need to add some handles as I seem to have lost part 12 along the way.



I'd previously made one on a band stand but from the pics I've seen when the band stand was used it was a 3 tier affaire so I'll be going without it, both option seem possible. There is a good picture on page 105 of John Lambert's book Allied Torpedo Boats.

Accurate Armour have a nice kit, delicate but good.







This is a nice picture

.

Now the question is will it be released in Spetember or December

AL
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2011 - 09:13 PM UTC
All quiet on the water front then .

One of the things that I hope will come as a result of the Vosper (providing of course it comes along) are some additional RN Sailors. This seems a fair possibility if Italeri stick to past form.

Up to now there are only 2 Companies that do RN Sailors in 1/35 scale, U Models and Friendship Models in their Wee Friends range. Of those the Wee Friends range are really good. Pete Morton sculpted the Wee Friends range and a fine job he has done too. I did email Ian at Friendship Models asking if the range might get expanded, so hopefully a few more crew might become available if we get lucky There is certainly scope for some more working types for both the LCM 3 and the LCVP, plus now the Vosper.

These are some of the Wee Friends range I picked up in the last couple of years. I had a few of the original Jakrei figuers in white metal and I used a couple on my LCM 3, but metal and plastic don't tend to go together well especialy if you drop a figure so these chaps are the resin version produced by Ian when he took over the range.



With duffle coats and pullovers they should fit the boat well. Another option might be the Accurate Armour Driver, again sculpted by Pete, who with a little work could convert to a Sailor.



Here's a few pics for reference from the IWM Collection













A few Women might be appropriate too, there were a lot of ladies employed in the maintainence side of life I believe.



I was thinking this might make a good display, but a few crew in overalls would be required.



This is an unusual picture



Al
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2011 - 09:30 PM UTC
One other good piece of news is that Reiscast have a set of Lewis Guns if you might get to thinking of a few additional MGs.





I did a review on these over on armorama as they were designed with the LRDG truck in mind.

http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=5528

You'd have to make the stands but with 4 per set you'd have enough for a pair of twin guns, if you have a mind to .

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2011 - 10:12 PM UTC
Hi folks,

Whilst I'm thinking about it some other options and references that might be of use.

On the U Models side a couple of figuers. The body proportions can be a little odd but then people come in all shapres and sizes. I quite like these two, the Captain and this Sailor, although I thickenned up the Captains legs a bit.



U Models also do a set of British Life Preservers.





My only grumble here is quanity v price.

and two useful references:





also worthy of mention is Allied Costal Forces of WW2 by John Lamber and Al Ross. I wasn't able to get a fair priced hard copy of this one but I did come across a free download on the net, although I'd have preferred a book as I find reading on the Computer a pain.

Al

AlanL
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2011 - 11:47 PM UTC
Finally on the figuers side there is always the option to convert your own. Hornet do a nice set of RN Sailors heads although no RN Officer Heads I know of.

These two were either MiniArt of MasterBox German Tank Crew, can't remember which now but I did them in working dress although I don't know how accurate the shirts and trousers might be.



Al
AlanL
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Posted: Saturday, April 30, 2011 - 02:03 AM UTC
Hi folks,

Update on the 2nd 20mm. Basic painting finished.











Al
Gremlin56
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Posted: Saturday, April 30, 2011 - 02:04 AM UTC
Looks like someone can hardly wait for the Vosper to arrive
A nice collection of figures and add ons though Alan,
Julian
AlanL
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Posted: Saturday, April 30, 2011 - 02:09 AM UTC
Hi Julian,

I had been hoping for an RN boat ever since the ELCO got announced .

A MGB would have been better but this one will do just fine.

Alan
AlanL
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Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2011 - 03:24 AM UTC
A couple of pics of the inside of the wheel house. Not sure which version through?

Edit

I've removed the 2 pics as they refer to a late type of boat and might be confusing.

Al

I also came across this one of MTB 74 which was used in the Naziere Raid.



Al
alross2
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Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2011 - 08:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

A couple of pics of the inside of the wheel house. Not sure which version through?Al



Based on the Vosper factory and John's drawings, the upper photo is of a 523-530, 532 series 73' type, while the lower photo is of a 379-395 series 73' type. The earlier 72'6" type (like the kit) looked like this:


Al Ross
AlanL
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Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2011 - 08:34 AM UTC
Hi Al,

Thanks, To the rescue as always. Oh look an Interior .

Alan
alross2
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Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2011 - 09:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Al,

Thanks, To the rescue as always. Oh look an Interior .

Alan



You mean this interior???
Al
AlanL
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Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2011 - 11:32 AM UTC
Hi Al,

I would hope like the MAS boat that will be included but good to see a picture of it in case anything important is missing.

Cheers

Alan
allycat
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Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2011 - 10:39 PM UTC
Hi Al,
I do admire your sense of 'Getting Prepared'.
One thing I'm curious about is the oerlikon mount pedestal. You'll have to check the boats were fitted with this type.
I can remember a pic of a trot of boats (one armed with a 20mm forward) on a previous thread with what look like lightening holes in the pedestal
The boats with shark teeth are Fairmile D's and would be a great kit in 35th scale with their Mediterranean MGB style weapons fit.
TTFN
Tom

Edit: I have a question about the bridge layouts.

Did the early boats have the ships wheel on the bridge? I've always thought they had their wheel in the wheelhouse forward of the bridge as per (Al ross) detail pic.
Could the 72' 6'' boat in the bridge pic have had it retro fitted?
Comparing the two pics posted I think You could see the wheelhouse wheel next to the voicepipe through the doorway in the Bridge view if it was fitted.
Tom
AlanL
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Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2011 - 11:18 PM UTC
Hi Tom,

Yes, There are a lot of varations in each batch of boats and of course changes in hull length with the different types, all very confusing for a land lubber .

The Fairmile Ds would have made a great kit.

I wonder if Italeri will offer an option of 18 or 21 inch torpedos? That would be a very useful option as MBT 74 when converted had the lighter 18 inch tubes added.

If I've read my data correctly MTB 73 to 98 formed the 1940s batch of boats being 72ft 6in x 19ft 21 /2 in.

The 1942 boats being numbers 347 to 362 also had the same hull dimentions and armament.

These will probably set the options as the earlier and later boats boats changed in hull length and width.

Nos 222 to 245 also had the same dimentions but I believe were armed with twin 20mm (currently not available) rather than the twin Vickers 0.5 guns.

I'll be looking at the early batch 73 to 98 as I believe a forward 20mm was added to these in late 43 early 44 but I need to establish if it was on the Mk i mount or included the band stand or if both options exist. lol, lol

So I'll need to study the available pics in more detail and see what might be best.

Exciting times thought.

Cheers

Alan
AlanL
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Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2011 - 11:34 PM UTC
Hi Tom,

Sorry missed your edit. The early boats from the pics Al posted had both a Bridge and Wheelhouse ships wheel.

The type1 boats that were 73ft had a different bridge layout. These were Nos 379 to 395 of 1944. As far as I can tell from the drawing of the bridge and wheelhouse they had the ships wheel in both locations but Al would probably be the best person to answer that.

Cheers

Alan
AlanL
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Posted: Monday, May 02, 2011 - 12:04 AM UTC
Hi folks,

I think MTB 353 might be a good option for the 20mm and 0.5 inch Vickers turret.. This was a 1942 boat but I think the spec was the same as the 1940s boats?

Any thoughts from the experts?

I'll have to look for suitable pictures of earlier boats too.

Cheers

Alan
TGarthConnelly
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Posted: Monday, May 02, 2011 - 01:56 AM UTC
Hi Alan,

May I ask you for a favor?

That photo of that Vosper in that distinctive camouflage scheme that you posted ...

Could you please email it to me, thank you.

Garth
AlanL
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Posted: Monday, May 02, 2011 - 03:07 AM UTC
Hi Garth,

Done.

Here's another MTB 307 in Sep 43, similar scheme.



Al
AlanL
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Posted: Monday, May 02, 2011 - 03:33 AM UTC
A larger picture from the Verona Expo.



Shown as MTB 77, bottom left. Accoding to Vospers in Action MTB 77 served in the Med and was sunk by German Aircraft off Vibo Valencia on 8th Sep 43.

Al
allycat
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Posted: Monday, May 02, 2011 - 07:15 AM UTC
Alan,
That's not what the pic of the bridge tells me!
The ship's wheel in the wheelhouse virtually touches the shelf where the voicepipe emerges from.
In the latter bridge shot, you can see through the doorway into the wheelhouse but there's no wheel visible.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/bridge.jpg
I guess this pic was taken later in the war and the ship's wheel has been moved to the bridge to ease communications between the watch office and helmsman.
Sorry, the pic didn't do what I wanted it to!
Tom
AlanL
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Posted: Monday, May 02, 2011 - 08:28 AM UTC
Hi Tom,

Sorry but you've lost me.

This is the picture Al posted of the Bridge on one of the early Vospers.



This is the picture he posted of the wheelhouse on another 1940 boat which shows some of the developments in the wheelhouse.



Allied Torpedo Boats page 113 and page 115 show both both the bridge and wheelhouse of MTB 73 and both have the ships wheel in place, so have I missed something here or am I simply not understanding what you are saying?

Ignore the 2 pictuers I posted they are of the later Type 1 boat in which was different.

These are referenced form John Lambert's book, they show the Bridge and Wheelhouse for MTB 73.





Hope that clarified your question.

Al
allycat
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Posted: Monday, May 02, 2011 - 10:44 AM UTC
That's OK Al, I lose myself sometimes. It's awkward if you can't just show someone in person, point and say 'this is what I mean'. If you see what I mean.

Right:

Al Ross's pic of the bridge shows the wheel in the center.
too the left of this is a door leading into the wheelhouse, If you look through the door you'll see the voicetube (port bulkhead) extending up from a shelf with a wooden document holder below it; and then passing through another. To the right (inboard) of this you'll see the engine telegraphs as depicted in the 1940 wheelhouse pic. The 1940 pic has the wheel mounted on a bulkhead abaft (towards the camera from this perspective) pivoting between the telegraphs and the compass. You should be able to see the left hand half of the wheel through the doorway And 1/4 of it against the white panel visible through the bottom of the doorway.
I think that later in the war the wheel was moved to the bridge.
The pic you posted of the bridge (Al posted) could be a later pic (or visa versa I suppose) than the one copied from J. Lambert's book of #73 (there's some sort of canister thingie bolted to the port bulkhead above the door) and different blanking plates (circular instead of hexagonal) behind the bridge wheel. and looking through the door at the white panel there appears to be a quarter of wheel visible.
So, to sumarize. If you decide on a later war boat there might not be a wheel in the wheelhouse. I believe that in the 73' boats (Airfix kit) that space was used as a chart room.
I'm trying to visualize where I'd put a model of this size so I can seriously think about buying one.
TTFN
Tom


AlanL
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Posted: Monday, May 02, 2011 - 05:24 PM UTC
Hi Tom,

Understand what you mean, I think. The Bridge Picture Al posted in in John's book too. The caption reads: " Listed as MTB 383 (a type 1 boat), this photograph actually depicts one of the earlier Vospers - the angle front to the wheelhouse can be seen through the door".

I can't say at what period of time this was taken or if there was a change in the use of the wheelhouse to the earlier boats as some point. Al might know. There were minor changes to the equipment I believe as more kit got added.

I'll see if I can find any more info.

Cheers

Alan

AlanL
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Posted: Friday, May 06, 2011 - 10:08 PM UTC
Hi folks,

Some more potential crew I'm working on from the MB Tankers Set.





Al