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General Ship Modeling: Creating Ship Dioramas
Topics on building dioramas are grouped here
M.A.S. 568 4a Serie
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, February 04, 2011 - 09:00 AM UTC
Hi Al,

Many thanks, it's not always clear to me what things are.

Cheers

Alan
alross2
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Posted: Friday, February 04, 2011 - 10:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

it's not always clear to me what things are.



No problems, mate. I've been studying small combatants like this for better than 50 years, so I kinda have a feel for what's there...




Al
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, February 04, 2011 - 07:36 PM UTC
Thanks for those Al. You can never hav enough drawings, or pictuers when your building. Knowing as much about the real thing as possible is probably as interesting as building the model, well for me anyway.

Cheers

Al

TGarthConnelly
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Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 02:38 AM UTC
All ...

I have just been informed via email from my publisher that, my MAS book is currently at the printers and 'we' should have a Proof by next week.

It is on track for its April 1, 2011 release date. The book will be a hardcover book this time. It'll also be available through Kindle and Google eBook (whatever that is).

Again, I have to give credit where credit is due for this book. It would not have come to fruition if it wasn't for the assistance I received from the archives of the Italian Navy, RADM Maurizio Ertreo, Vincent P. O'Hara, and Ms. Maria Mia Pizzali.

Without their assistance, this book would be nothing like it is. I am VERY GRATEFUL for the level and the amount of assistance I received from those people and the Italian Navy.

Thanks to them, this is truly my BEST book ever.

Garth
AlanL
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Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 04:58 AM UTC
Hi Garth,

Glad to hear it's coming along. Should be a useful reference for folks. Couldn;t wait though, needed the sea air after all that armour!!

Hi Guys,

While I'm waiting on a resupply of styrene I got on wiht a few of the deck fittings.

I'm not sure what the corner fitting on the stern is it's at stage 32 in the instructionsand me thinks a coulpe of the part number are incorrect should be E not F. Parts 46F are the same one on each of the spures but I have a feeling one is wrong as the extended lug for the cross bar is on the outside?

Also worked on stage 33 the depth charges. There is a little spindle that rotates on the end of the rack - Parts 43f. One of these had a coulpe of stunted arms which didinl't help and the cross arm on my part 42d was broken off . Other than that a pretty good fit, I've som,e PE to add to thisp part yet

On the Breda parts 33e and 34e weren't a great fit and be careful removing part 31e the barrel end .

Anyway here you go:



That's all for now folks

Al
alross2
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Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 06:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm not sure what the corner fitting on the stern is it's at stage 32



Smoke screen generator.

Al
TGarthConnelly
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Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 06:08 AM UTC
Alan M ...........

Just out of curiousity .........

How big (in inches) is that model?

Is it like (as a reference for myself) their PT-596 kit? Yes, I realize the MAS boats were smaller than the Elco 80 footers, I am just trying to get a mental image to understand its size ... I've got their PT-596 kit and if I look at that, maybe I can get an idea of the size of the MAS model.

Thank you,

Garth
AlanL
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Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 07:42 AM UTC
Thanks Al.

Garth, about 21 inches.

Alan
TGarthConnelly
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Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 08:36 AM UTC
That's a pretty good sized model ............ Thanks Alan.
AlanL
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Posted: Sunday, February 06, 2011 - 03:33 AM UTC
Hi folks,

bits worked on so far.





I did come across some tops that I though might work as fuel tanks!?







Al
AlanL
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Posted: Monday, February 07, 2011 - 05:58 AM UTC
Hi Al,

I've build 4 of the fuel tanks, which may be a waste as there is a bulk head forward of them, but I assume this bulkhead had a door way to the aft of the boat, so an open doorway which might make the effort worthwhile? That is assuming the bulkhead was solid and not a frame of some sort?

I also assume there was a central gangway running the length of the engine room, through the fuel tans to the workshop area, but this has some form of what looks like metal bracing between two sets of the tanks.

I've been looking at the drawigns but can't see whether the fuel lines run along the deck to the fuel pump at the side or under the deck. Can you throw any light on this and where the fuel lines exited the tanks?



Many thanks

Alan

Edit: As a follow up on the diagram of the officers quarters there are two box type things on the upper wall to the side of the rifle rack. Any idea what these represent? Also any idea what the locker type things are in the centre of the diagram?

Thanks

Al
alross2
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Posted: Monday, February 07, 2011 - 09:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text


I've build 4 of the fuel tanks, which may be a waste as there is a bulk head forward of them, but I assume this bulkhead had a door way to the aft of the boat, so an open doorway which might make the effort worthwhile? That is assuming the bulkhead was solid and not a frame of some sort?

I also assume there was a central gangway running the length of the engine room, through the fuel tans to the workshop area, but this has some form of what looks like metal bracing between two sets of the tanks.

I've been looking at the drawigns but can't see whether the fuel lines run along the deck to the fuel pump at the side or under the deck. Can you throw any light on this and where the fuel lines exited the tanks?
Edit: As a follow up on the diagram of the officers quarters there are two box type things on the upper wall to the side of the rifle rack. Any idea what these represent? Also any idea what the locker type things are in the centre of the diagram?



The only access to the fuel tank compartment was through the four hatches in the deck above and, on the drawings, what appears to be a small hatch on the centerline between the first two pairs of tanks. The hatch is not on the model, but I can see what looks like the appropriate framing for a hatch on the plans. It appears to be flush with the deck, so may have been more of a removable panel than a hinged hatch. It's about the same size as the hatch into the lazarette, but runs lengthwise. Its forward end is roughly in line with the back of the seat on the BREDA.. The bulkheads at either end did not have an access hatch through them.

On the drawings, it appears that the fuel tank outlets were inboard, at the bottom of the sidewall of the tanks, in line with the filler caps. The plans do not show the fuel line runs.





The inverted cone with four supports between the second and third pair of tanks was the deck stiffener for the gun mount above. As thin as the lines are on the drawing, both the cone and the supports were likely metal.



The small boxes up high in the O quarters are bookshelves. The objects against the bulkhead are most likely a desk with storage under (center), and a cabinet or two for the skipper (clothes, charts, etc).

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Monday, February 07, 2011 - 05:35 PM UTC
Excellent, many thanks.

Alan
Denis_Sergeevich
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Posted: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 05:55 AM UTC
Hi, guys! I am a Russian modeler. I do not speak English, so I use Google translator.
I have a question about boat MAS 558 (in the gray-white camouflage uniforms), this boat belongs to a series 3a.

What were the differences between the series 3a and 4a? How much to alter the model to get the MAC 558?
Thanks in advance for your reply.
alross2
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Posted: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 10:02 AM UTC
Alan,

Here's that fuel compartment hatch on an earlier series boat.

Al
alross2
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Posted: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 10:13 AM UTC
[quote
What were the differences between the series 3a and 4a? How much to alter the model to get the MAC 558?[/quote]

Denis,

Essentially, both series are outwardly nearly identical. They have the same dimensions (18.7m x 4.7m), same engines, same armament, etc. These drawings of the two series are from an article in 'STORIA MILITARE" by Erminio Bagnasco.


A great deal of technical detail, including photos and drawings, can be found in both I MAS E LE MOTOSILURANTI ITALIANE or MAS E MEZZI D'ASSALTO DI SUPERFICIE ITALIANI (both written by Bagnasco).

Al Ross
Denis_Sergeevich
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Posted: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 07:08 PM UTC
Al, thank you very much for the scheme and clarification.
One question: what is it?
alross2
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Posted: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 01:03 AM UTC
Denis,

I'm at work right now, so don't have access to my references. Will take a look tonight when I get home. At first glance, it looks like a braced antenna lead-in, but I really need to check the plans and photos to give you a solid answer.

Al Ross
AlanL
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Posted: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 03:25 AM UTC
Thanks for the Reference Al. I supoose I have no excuse now for not making the hatch

Alan
Denis_Sergeevich
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Posted: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 04:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text


I'm at work right now, so don't have access to my references. Will take a look tonight when I get home. At first glance, it looks like a braced antenna lead-in, but I really need to check the plans and photos to give you a solid answer.

Al Ross


Al, I know that it. It is a mast, but it isn't up to the end traced on this drawing (the top is cut off or hasn't got on a picture). At first I thought that it is a machine gun on a rack, but have then understood that it is a piece of a mast with an inclined prop.
If you have the drawing of this mast, please show it.
I will be immensely grateful.
Denis
alross2
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Posted: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 10:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

At first I thought that it is a machine gun on a rack, but have then understood that it is a piece of a mast with an inclined prop.
If you have the drawing of this mast, please show it.







While this drawing is for an earlier boat, I checked it against the set I have for the later boats and the mast is identical.

Al
alross2
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Posted: Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 12:54 AM UTC
Denis,

On a somewhat related topic - I'm working on a book on Higgins PTs and want to include material on them in Soviet service. I have a couple Russian-language books with some information, but prefer to work from primary sources like government documents. Are you familiar with any reliable sources for such information there in Russia?

Al Ross
Denis_Sergeevich
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Posted: Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 06:05 AM UTC
Al, thanks you for mast drawings.

Quoted Text


On a somewhat related topic - I'm working on a book on Higgins PTs and want to include material on them in Soviet service. I have a couple Russian-language books with some information, but prefer to work from primary sources like government documents. Are you familiar with any reliable sources for such information there in Russia?

Al Ross


I know only this site (boats transferred on lend-lease)
http://sovnavy-ww2.by.ru/mtb/typ_higgins.htm
AlanL
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Posted: Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 08:27 AM UTC
Engines!

Caused some head scratching i can tell you.

I came across this by CKM (thanks Luciano)



What do you think close enough?

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, February 11, 2011 - 09:03 AM UTC
Hi Al,

Another question for you. The side vents on either side of the hull, were these bilge outlets of some sort? Also do you know what fittings would be attached to them on the inside.

Work continues on the inner hull, 4 fuel tanks made and the template for the engine room bulk head cut out. There is also a hatch cut into the aft hull lol, lol.

Thanks

Al