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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Best primer on the market?
Plasticbattle
#003
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Donegal, Ireland
Joined: May 14, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 12:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

And I also wash the sprues before the build- gets the mold-release oils off before you start.


Has anybody ever had a problem with mold-release oils on sprues produced in the last 10 years ... from any of the big manufacturers? Ive often read about this problem but never encountered it myself. When I heard of this happening it was usually from older Eastern European companies, but MiniArt and Masterbox figures and buildings sets that I have used appear oil free.
Is this just a fear that has survived from the previous decades?
panzerbob01
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Louisiana, United States
Joined: March 06, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 04:40 PM UTC
Frank:

Hi!

Sadly, the short-and-simple is "YES". In the 2 years I've been back into the hobby, I have had the oilies.

And it's with old east-euro kits- old RPM and Mirage stuff and some Russian outfit(s) I chanced across. Some of those old soldiers can be pretty nasty and greasy.

Newer stuff from "over there" and all the major brands are typically clean and dry. But I do carefully look at the sprues- guess it's that "once burned..." reflex. And if they appear to be dirty (or smell oily), I dunk 'em before I build 'em.

Figure it's no harm! (as long as you don't use hot water.... )

Cheers!

Bob
rjc_rbnj
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: July 19, 2006
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Posted: Friday, September 17, 2010 - 06:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

You mentioned in your previous reply about surface preparation & to cover the model with Windex. I'm not sure if we have this product in the UK so can anybody point me in the right direction to an equivalent product that is available over here, please?


Windowlean? Im guessing the windex is an alcohol/ethanol based product? Windowlean or Ajax window cleaner would do the same. Just check the compsition and make sure its an alcohol based cleaner.

I fill a bowl with warm water and a good squirt of washing up liquid. Set your built model in this for about 20 minutes or so, and rinse really well with luke warm water. Leave in a dust free box for a day or so until it dries.

I prime sometimes when having multi coloured bits, but have sprayed Tamiya directly as well on similar. Never had a problem with it either way and could agree that priming may be a pointless exercise. Many have recommended Games workshop primers ... they are good but they are quite expensive. I use a hobby primer from an auto/DIY shop and it works every bit as well as the games workshop primer, and is about one third of the price.




Alcohol is used to spread and dry window cleaning products. Ammonia is the active agent that does the actual cleaning.
joegrafton
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United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, September 17, 2010 - 08:11 AM UTC
I checked out the ingrediants of Windolene sold in the UK. It doesn't have amonia in it. Is that a problem?
Joe.
SSGToms
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Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Friday, September 17, 2010 - 09:09 AM UTC
Yeah. It needs to have ammonia in it to strip all the oils and grunge.
joegrafton
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United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, September 17, 2010 - 10:47 AM UTC
Okay, thanks, Matt. I'm trying to find a seller in the States who is willing to ship Windex to me.
Joe.
SSGToms
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Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Friday, September 17, 2010 - 11:31 AM UTC
Maybe you could find the MSDS for Windex and make your own for pennies...
tnichols
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California, United States
Joined: May 14, 2007
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Posted: Friday, September 17, 2010 - 06:22 PM UTC
Regarding floquil paints. I have used floquil for MANY years. I use mostly railroad tie brown,primer,weathered black and mud. I have noticed lately that floquil is just about useless. It seems to me that it is thin,less pigment,doesn't have a bite to the plastic,has a shine and dries sticky. Maybe it is me,but at this point in time I think they suck. I just used a new bottle of primer and I think I have just about ruined the model I was priming. I am interested to hear if any of you are having the same problems. Semper Fi. Ted Nichols
Ranchhand
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Texas, United States
Joined: September 04, 2010
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Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 05:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Friend,
Vallejo airbrushable primers are a wise choice. They are available in white, grey, and black. This range of primer colors will enable you to shade while you rpime and thus avoiding pilling up even more layers of paint on top of the fine details on your model surface. I hope this helps.



After getting the DVD "AFV Acrylic techniques" I was interested in the vallejo primers as well, but i found this review;
http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=5176

which gave me pause. In the video it looked good. I hope that someone does a new review with all three of the primers.

has anyone else used them? any opinions?
afv_rob
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: October 09, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 05:16 AM UTC
Im kinda late with this, but the best primer ive used to date has to be Games Workshop chaos black primer. In the UK a large can costs about 8.00 and theres enough in a large can to prime about 10 1/35 models. The stuff is just perfect and I simply cant recommend it enough. It comes out incredibly fine and gives the best surface coverage of any primer ive used (and trust me ive used a lot)of course another benefit of using the black primer is it provides the deep shadow base. They also do a white one if you want something lighter.
SSGToms
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Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 05:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Friend,
Vallejo airbrushable primers are a wise choice. They are available in white, grey, and black. This range of primer colors will enable you to shade while you rpime and thus avoiding pilling up even more layers of paint on top of the fine details on your model surface. I hope this helps.



After getting the DVD "AFV Acrylic techniques" I was interested in the vallejo primers as well, but i found this review;
http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=5176

which gave me pause. In the video it looked good. I hope that someone does a new review with all three of the primers.

has anyone else used them? any opinions?


Yes, I am currently finishing the photography for a review of all three Vallejo acrylic primers. They are all excellent and I had no troubles at all with them. I can recommend all three colors! Review out soon!
Ranchhand
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Texas, United States
Joined: September 04, 2010
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Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 05:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Yes, I am currently finishing the photography for a review of all three Vallejo acrylic primers. They are all excellent and I had no troubles at all with them. I can recommend all three colors! Review out soon!


cool, makes me question the old review? did they change their formula?

Have you tried using Tamiya paints over the Vallejo primer? any issues?
Look forward to the review!
Rocketeer
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Sunday, September 26, 2010 - 04:18 AM UTC
I agree fully about the Games Workshop Primer. The cans are huge and can cover a lot. The pigament is perfect being very small grain. I think thier white is even better since it can be used for figures and lighter colored models. Since it comes in a can you can spray it without setting up your airbrush
c5flies
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California, United States
Joined: October 21, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, September 26, 2010 - 04:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Yes, I am currently finishing the photography for a review of all three Vallejo acrylic primers. They are all excellent and I had no troubles at all with them. I can recommend all three colors! Review out soon!


cool, makes me question the old review? did they change their formula?

Have you tried using Tamiya paints over the Vallejo primer? any issues?
Look forward to the review!



I totally agree with Matt, the Vallejo primers are excellent. I've only used the grey and black, but would imagine the white is equally good. The formula hasn't changed, probably just a case of different strokes for different folks

Use them straight out of the bottle, or add a drop or two of distilled water in the airbrush cup with the primer to give an even silkier finish. This stuff is hard as nails after curing for a day or 2. A couple of light coats are better then one, and with the quick drying times 2 coats are performed in an uninterrupted spraying session.

I can't comment on other brands compatibility over them, as I packed all my other acrylics away (forever ) and use Vallejo exclusively now.
Ranchhand
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Texas, United States
Joined: September 04, 2010
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Posted: Monday, September 27, 2010 - 04:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text


I totally agree with Matt, the Vallejo primers are excellent. I've only used the grey and black, but would imagine the white is equally good. The formula hasn't changed, probably just a case of different strokes for different folks

Use them straight out of the bottle, or add a drop or two of distilled water in the airbrush cup with the primer to give an even silkier finish. This stuff is hard as nails after curing for a day or 2. A couple of light coats are better then one, and with the quick drying times 2 coats are performed in an uninterrupted spraying session.

I can't comment on other brands compatibility over them, as I packed all my other acrylics away (forever ) and use Vallejo exclusively now.



good info, thanks! I think a lot of people are now patiently waiting for that review
cbreeze
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Illinois, United States
Joined: August 15, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, October 10, 2010 - 04:49 PM UTC
Greetings,

I have been looking for a good primer and ran across this thread. I found some vallejo white primer at a hobby shop today and picked some up. Shot some on some plastic in the spare parts box and was impressed. I used it straight out of the bottle and had the compressor set at 35psi. I read somewhere that it likes higher pressure. Anyway, I really liked the way it covered. It went on smooth and thin. I did experience some tip dry with the needle but a q tip dipped in windex cured that problem. I also used the windex to clean the airbrush after I was finished. I plan on using some acrylics over the primer tomorrow. I am really interested to see if there will by any adhesion problems. I just may have found what I have been looking for.

cbreeze
vonHengest
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Texas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2010
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Posted: Sunday, October 10, 2010 - 06:02 PM UTC
For whatever reason none of my local shops carry the Vallejo primers. I am going to ask around and see if any of them are willing to start adding them to their inventory as they sound like excellent primers.

I do have one shop that sells the GW primers so I may check some of those out, as well as the Floquil black which I'm assuming I can find at a model train store?

For the meantime I've been using Mr. Surfacer 1200 which has been working beautifully
cbreeze
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Illinois, United States
Joined: August 15, 2005
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Posted: Monday, October 11, 2010 - 02:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

For whatever reason none of my local shops carry the Vallejo primers. I am going to ask around and see if any of them are willing to start adding them to their inventory as they sound like excellent primers.

I do have one shop that sells the GW primers so I may check some of those out, as well as the Floquil black which I'm assuming I can find at a model train store?

For the meantime I've been using Mr. Surfacer 1200 which has been working beautifully



I too have been using Mr. Surfacer and it is an excellent primer. The last time I used it the fumes really bothered me that is why I am looking for a substitute.

cbreeze
rebelsoldier
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Arizona, United States
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Posted: Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 02:31 PM UTC
cleaning:
i use cold water and windex spray on the trees/sprues. then the cold water rinse, then hang to dry on a clothes line in the garage, usually overnight does it well enough for me.

primers:
i use off the shelf at the dollar stores spray can primers. the trick is to not get too close. i usually have to do two or three swipes to get it all uniform, but its light and even. only drawback to primers i have found is clen up of areas to be glued, unless you are useing ca gel, then it doesn't seem to matter.

just my two bits

reb
lukiftian
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: March 12, 2010
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Posted: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - 03:42 PM UTC
Tamiya White Primer.

In a thin coat.
retiredyank
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Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
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Posted: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - 07:54 PM UTC

Quoted Text

When I did prime, I used to use Krylon grey primer but was never happy with it because of how thick a layer of paint that spray cans put out. Spray cans are fine for 1:1 cars but just too much for models. A spray can is like a fire hose, when an airbrush is like a hypodermic needle. 1 coat from a spray can is thicker than 5 coats from an airbrush.


I use rattle cans for primer. I generally use Krylon or Color Place grey. If you hold the can about a foot back from the model, the paint won't flood the detail. If you are working with clear styrene, use a darker color like black. For some reason rattle can primers don't work well on clear parts.
lighthorseman
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South Australia, Australia
Joined: April 26, 2008
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Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 - 09:54 AM UTC
for cleaning i have had success with methylated spirits or i use automotive prep wash which is designed to remove grease wax etc from panels prior to spray painting

for priming i will generally use mr surfacer 1200 from the air brush or i have also used a flex primer (used for priming plastic trim on cars) the flex primer i decanted into a jar and then sprayed with airbrush. the only problem with flex primer is there is little to no tint to it. the last can i bought was nearly clear.

both have worked well for me
Ranchhand
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Texas, United States
Joined: September 04, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 - 11:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

...for priming i will generally use mr surfacer 1200 from the air brush...


Do you thin the mr. surfacer? if so what thinner? I have had problems with that stuff drying out really fast
lighthorseman
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South Australia, Australia
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Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 - 12:59 PM UTC
i will get it in the spray can and decant this also and then spray it

yes it does dry quickly .

out of the air brish its not too bad you still need to work reasonably quicky tho

i found using a lower pressure 10-15 psi and about 4 inches from the model does the trick and it doesnt partially dry dry before hitting the surface to be primed
panzerlou
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: July 27, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 - 09:08 AM UTC
Hi, I always use Polly S Plastic prep.It removes Mold release..Also makes plastic static and dust freeJust apply it and let it die.