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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Best paint for hand brushing?
casualmodeler
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Hame, Finland
Joined: February 04, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 02:45 AM UTC
From the first kit I ever built in my childhood till today, its been Humbrol. Im used to it and it has never let me down. I know theres lots of other fancy, trendy "must have" acrylics on the market but Im such a dinosaur and old school modelbuilder, that I follow my own, old habits.
Karl187
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Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 01:27 AM UTC
Hey Comrade MP.

I've never used Testors paints so perhaps someone else will give you some info on those. As for Tamiya paints they are one of the best to use for many things including hand brushing (I assume you are planning to hand-brush a model?). Make sure the Tamiya pots are well stirred and shaken before you begin. You can thin Tamiya paints with water and this helps to avoid 'clumping' and brush strokes being too visible. You can also use Tamiya Thinner but if you are not careful it can lift paint off from areas you have already covered.
You might want to give Vallejo Acrylics a look aswell, they are excellent for hand brushing and thin very well and easily with water.

As for brushes- always try and get something of decent quality. Artists supply stores are a good place to start. However, I would definetly recommend Tamiya brushes- I use mostly these and 502 Abteilung brushes from Mig Productions.

As for cleaning them you should be able to give them a decent clean with water. Avoid dunking the brushes off the bottom of any water container- swishing the brushes about rapidly is much kinder to the shape of the brush. Artists supply stores may also sell brush cleaner and/or restorers- these are good for elongating the life of brushes and after a few sessions give them a good clean in one of these products. I recommend Vallejo cleaners.

I hope this helps a bit.

Good luck!
ComradeMP
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Posted: Monday, September 19, 2011 - 03:12 PM UTC
Hey fellas.

What are you guy's thoughts on Testors and Tamiya paints? So far, I've got a decent sized collection of Testors (acrylic & enamel) and Tamiya but have been hesitant of trying out other paints.

And brushes, where to start? So far I've got a bunch of cheap brushes (don't really use those anymore) and a few decent quality paint brushes I bought in a pack at a wal mart some time ago. I'm tempted to invest in a set of Tamiya brushes, especially pointed brushes for detail work.

a bit off topic, but is there a correct way to clean brushes after a session?
captnenglish
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Posted: Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 01:23 PM UTC
Vallejo or Reaper!
ebergerud
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California, United States
Joined: July 15, 2010
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Posted: Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 12:37 PM UTC
A late contender deserves mention along with a comment or two.

I've just given a battle test of Revell Germany's Aqua Color acrylics. They're not available in the US but are all over the UK and for stuff like paint shipping is nickle/dime and normally quite fast.

Aqua Color are water based acrylics and do resemble Vallejo Model Color somewhat. I did hand brush a good hunk of battleship yesterday and the results were very impressive. Revell claims that their line is "self-leveling." (Pledge/Future has that quality which is why you dip a cockpit into a jar and have it look just fine.) In my use the brush strokes were almost invisible so Revel stands vindicated at least for now. They have 88 colors and, being a German company, have a lot of military types keyed toward German schemes. (I was painting with "Squirrel Gray" also labelled RAL 7001 - a very hard color to duplicate.) They certainly have very good looking German armor colors. See more at http://www.revell.de/index.php?id=287&L=1.

They recommend only a small amount of distilled water for brush painting. I use "Flow Aid" which is a leveler and retarder found in several brands in any art supply store. (It's mixed with distilled water at 10:1.) Revel warns not to use more than 20% thinner. I think the reason would be the same as that given by Golden Acrylics for their fluid line of artist acrylics. Too much water will break down the molecular integrity of the mix.

For "low and slow" airbrushing this can be easily handled by employing acrylic "mediums" like "airbrush" "airbrush extender" "satin", "varnish" or a lot of other goodies that contain polymer. Indeed, if mixed with this kind of stuff you can use a water based model or fluid based artist acrylic for a very thin layer of airbrushing. This is important to me because I like to airbrush at about 18psi. For higher psi the recommended 20% distilled water would work fine I'd think.

BTW: I am very fond of fluid artist acrylics like Golden or Liquitex. I think the better pigments make them worth the price over craft paints like Dream Coat or Apple Barrel, although I'm sure the later would be fine to dios. You do have to master the basic "mediums" but once you do you can literally design your own paint. It's very good stuff when properly used and very reasonably priced. Mediums are expensive but would last for years - overall this stuff would easily be the least expensive answer to quality model painting. And if you don't like the powerful solvents used in lacquers, enamels or the solvent based "acrylics" like Tamiya or Gunze, they are the best because they're so benign. You can't smell Aqua Color.

Some reporter asked famous Depression Era bank robber Willy Sutton after his capture why he robbed banks: "that's where the money is" answered Willy. For buying paint brushes you can't beat an artist supply store. They'll have everything from Euro sable that can push $50 to craft style synthetics for $2 per brush. (That would be a good cheapo: packages are cheaper yet. Although you'd have to go to a crafts store for real low cost items.) You'll know you're at the right place when they have huge bins with brushes designed for acrylics, oils and water colors specifically, as well as "all rounders." I've looked at model maker brushes and they're okay but priced maybe three times too high. If you've got the mentality maybe a few very expensive brushes would be worth it - if you know and practice brush care they will last for years. I don't so I buy some el-cheapos for many uses and fair quality synthetics for actual modeling. They won't last an eternity but I pick up replacements every couple of kits. A new or nearly new synthetic will beat the hell out of a badly cared for sable. Adam Wilder has recommended buying a new #1 or #2 for each kit specifically for armor chipping. Basically, I think he's right.

My views anyway.
Eric
Plasticbattle
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Donegal, Ireland
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Posted: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 - 08:37 AM UTC
Every modeller has their own preferences and each answer will be slightly different. Most however have applied themselves to a paint brand that they can find easily and locally. The learning curve is probably similar no matter what paint type you choose. But rather than just taking one brand and searching no futher ... why not try a few different brands and see which works for you. They all have their advantages and dissadvantages. Many who use mostly acrylics still buy Humbrol and oils for different effects. Those who paint mostly with enamels or oils buy acrylics as well ... again a different set of advantages. Dont limit yourself!!
jrrivc
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California, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 - 07:08 AM UTC
What happened to LifeColor? Not to long ago Sgt. Tom gave a real good review of the Lifecolor paints, and he seemed to think they hand brushed better than Vallejo, and I have to agree with him.
Frank
SSGToms
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Posted: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 07:58 PM UTC
In the end, it's Vallejo all the way for brush painting. 2 drops of paint and 2 drops of distilled water in a palette cup is all you need for brush painting perfection.

If you want to fool around with extender and retarder, you can do that much later. Liquitex sells Flo-Aid and Slo-Dri at any Michaels Craft Store.
SSGToms
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Posted: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 07:52 PM UTC

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Winsor & Newton brushes. I have the Cirrus series. They are high quality Kolinsky Sable, leave no brush marks, and will last forever.
Use rounds for lines, points for detail, and flats for areas.



Matt, Where are you getting your Cirrus brushes from? I have been trying to find them but am having no luck.

I have a few and wanted to pick up some more, but it seams my sorce has discontenued them.


John,

Sorry for the late response, but I thought this thread had gone on without me. I get my Winsor and Newton Cirrus Series brushes at Michaels Craft Stores. Also try Ben Franklin and Hobby Lobby.
imatanker
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Maine, United States
Joined: February 11, 2011
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Posted: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 01:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text


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Good for you Paints separate because they have different densities, I don't think tap or distilled water matters that much anyway I'm now using fairly big brush raphael size 1, and I can steer paint a bit when it separates.
I also have to take back my words about reaper paints, they are rubbish.



:) What works for some... You're probably right about the thinning ability (?) of the different types of water, however the chemicals and additives to tap water must surely have an effect on the paint. South African tap water (which is what I thinned with before changing to distilled) is very drinkable, but only because of all the stuff they add to it to make it thus.

Thanks for the comments on Reaper paints. I've been tempted to try them, but might give them a miss then. I'm somewhat partial to the GW/Citadel paints, except for the stupid, easy-spill container

Back to Jeff's question though... mate, I just found this article which may be of interest. Although more for the AB painter, it might be of use: Types of Thinners .

Nice ,nice,nice ,nice ,nice.thanks too much.Just what I needed.Now I have something to work with.Thank again,Jeff
Tarok
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Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 12:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Good for you Paints separate because they have different densities, I don't think tap or distilled water matters that much anyway I'm now using fairly big brush raphael size 1, and I can steer paint a bit when it separates.
I also have to take back my words about reaper paints, they are rubbish.



:) What works for some... You're probably right about the thinning ability (?) of the different types of water, however the chemicals and additives to tap water must surely have an effect on the paint. South African tap water (which is what I thinned with before changing to distilled) is very drinkable, but only because of all the stuff they add to it to make it thus.

Thanks for the comments on Reaper paints. I've been tempted to try them, but might give them a miss then. I'm somewhat partial to the GW/Citadel paints, except for the stupid, easy-spill container

Back to Jeff's question though... mate, I just found this article which may be of interest. Although more for the AB painter, it might be of use: Types of Thinners .
dubik2005
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Uusimaa, Finland
Joined: June 14, 2010
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2011 - 06:48 PM UTC

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I assume you can clean up with water?Does anything work better? Windex,isopropyl alcohol


As Tarok already wrote, you clean brush with the water during paint session and use airbrush cleaner if you see some color on it after cleaning with water.
Regarding thinning ratio....It depends on your painting style. There are 2 (there are of course more, but these are quite popular) ways: slow color change - relatively thick paint (requires good sense of color), or very thin paint but colors can be completely different (requires a lot of patient and self control!).
This is the example of first approach:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMDWfDkap0w
and this is the example of second:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY911xa_xOI&feature=related
In the first video thinning is about 1:1 or 1 part water to 2 parts paint in the second 6 parts water 1 part paint.
More you put water less you control where it goes, you have to unload most of the paint from it on a paper.


Quoted Text

My experience is similar to yours, however I found that thinning it with tap water caused it to seperate.


Good for you Paints separate because they have different densities, I don't think tap or distilled water matters that much anyway I'm now using fairly big brush raphael size 1, and I can steer paint a bit when it separates.
I also have to take back my words about reaper paints, they are rubbish.
Phil_H
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: November 10, 2005
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2011 - 02:50 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Does anyone else have a preference as to what to thin (for brushing) and clean up Vallejo acrylics with?What ratios?Thanks,Jeff



It's hard to suggest a specific thinning ratio for Vallejo ModelColor because the paints can vary considerably in consistency from one colour to another. Some colours are quite watery and some extrude from the jar almost in strings.

As already noted, distilled water works quite well.

And as always, shake till you think you've shaken it too much, then shake it some more.
Tarok
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2011 - 02:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Technically you can, but I wouldn't suggest.



Practically you can as well. You just need to ensure that it doesn't seperate My experience is similar to yours, however I found that thinning it with tap water caused it to seperate. I also noticed a chalky film forming. Clearly my tap water wasn't as good as yurs. For me distilled water was the solution to this issue.

Jeff: my preferance for thinning Vallejo Model Colour is distilled water for the reasons above. For thinning Vallejo Model Air: I don't, I spray straight from the bottle (well, bottle, to AB cup...). When painting (Model Colour) I clean the brushes using tap water, however at the end of the session I use Vallejo's brush cleaner and restorer - acrylics (or vinyl as in the Vallejo case) paints can be heavy wearing on brushes.

My 2c...

R~
imatanker
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Maine, United States
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2011 - 11:55 AM UTC

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So let me get this straight,Vallejo can be brushed right out of the bottle with good results,with out having to mess with retarders and flow enhancers?



Technically you can, but I wouldn't suggest. It's very hard to paint. Just add one drop of water, it will be much easier. (1:1 paint:water). Retarders and flow enhancers are completely optional. Some also may suggest distilled water, my tap water is pretty good.

Sergiy,thank you.I assume you can clean up with water?Does anything work better? Windex,isopropyl alcohol

Does anyone else have a preference as to what to thin (for brushing) and clean up Vallejo acrylics with?What ratios?Thanks,Jeff
Removed by original poster on 07/18/11 - 22:38:05 (GMT).
retiredyank
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Arkansas, United States
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2011 - 09:58 AM UTC
I use taklon brushes. They seem to resist "feathering" and are great with enamels. I have heard good things about Vallejo and Humbrol paints. But, due to difficulty of finding either here, I stick with MM enamels. For airbrushing, I use either Tamiya acrylics or MM enamels. MM acrylics are nice, as well. You will need to add a couple of drops of glass cleaner, if you use MM acrylics.
dubik2005
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Uusimaa, Finland
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2011 - 08:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

So let me get this straight,Vallejo can be brushed right out of the bottle with good results,with out having to mess with retarders and flow enhancers?



Technically you can, but I wouldn't suggest. It's very hard to paint. Just add one drop of water, it will be much easier. (1:1 paint:water). Retarders and flow enhancers are completely optional. Some also may suggest distilled water, my tap water is pretty good.
imatanker
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Maine, United States
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2011 - 07:01 AM UTC
So let me get this straight,Vallejo can be brushed right out of the bottle with good results,with out having to mess with retarders and flow enhancers? Thanks,Jeff
vonHengest
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Posted: Saturday, June 11, 2011 - 07:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Guys why you like vallejo paints that much? It separates immediately. I have to mix it every time I dip brush. It's especially bad when I draw little detail, which can't mix paint so I have to take bigger brush....Reaper's paints and Andrea paints work much better. They don't separate and have nice coverage.



Sergiy, I have only ever experienced this problem once with Vallejo, one of the dark brown colors. Vallejo paints have otherwise been stellar to work with and are my favorite paints for brush painting.

Middle_Franconian
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Bayern, Germany
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Posted: Saturday, June 11, 2011 - 06:49 AM UTC
Hello!

I prefer Revell Aqua Color for applying paint by brush. It is odourless and one cup lasts very long. First I used it only for brush painting of details because I was not content with the results when using it in the airbrush and thinning it with water or Isopropyl alcohol. But since Revell has issued a thinner especially made for these colors I can handle the Aqua colors easily in the airbrush.

Servus,

Sebastian
raffrecon
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Posted: Monday, May 30, 2011 - 03:34 AM UTC
Vallejo, by far. I just bought the 72 color military set and it includes 3 brushes as well. I really like these brushes too.

I like Tamiya and MM Acryl fro airbrushing.

Dan
Big-John
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Posted: Friday, March 25, 2011 - 01:46 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Winsor & Newton brushes. I have the Cirrus series. They are high quality Kolinsky Sable, leave no brush marks, and will last forever.
Use rounds for lines, points for detail, and flats for areas.



Matt, Where are you getting your Cirrus brushes from? I have been trying to find them but am having no luck.

I have a few and wanted to pick up some more, but it seams my sorce has discontenued them.
dubik2005
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Uusimaa, Finland
Joined: June 14, 2010
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Posted: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 11:31 PM UTC
Guys why you like vallejo paints that much? It separates immediately. I have to mix it every time I dip brush. It's especially bad when I draw little detail, which can't mix paint so I have to take bigger brush....Reaper's paints and Andrea paints work much better. They don't separate and have nice coverage.