login   |    register
AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
REVIEW
DOA Hobbies Pigments
c5flies
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: October 21, 2007
KitMaker: 3,684 posts
Armorama: 2,938 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 05:27 AM UTC
Matthew Toms reviews some newly released pigments from DOA Hobbies, and pits them against some familiar names to see how they stack up against the competition.

Link to Item



If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
trackpads
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: December 17, 2008
KitMaker: 330 posts
Armorama: 284 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 05:53 AM UTC
trackpads will carry there complete paint and pigment range from early next month for the UK / European modelers who are interested in the DOA range if that helps at all chaps.
CMOT
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
ARMORAMA
#406
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,802 posts
Armorama: 8,485 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 06:00 AM UTC
I do agree that the product represents excellent value for money; however the pictures in this review make the rust pigment look to be incorrect. The pictures you have provided showing the rust pigment looks to be a red brown as opposed to the orange colour associated with rust. This will not deter me from investing in some of these products from DOA, but that rust needs some work and so I cannot agree with your summation.
alanmac
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 2,931 posts
Armorama: 2,852 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 06:11 AM UTC
Hi

Thanks Matt for a nicely detailed review.

Hopefully these will make it to a supplier in the UK or we'll just have to order direct in bulk.

My only other comment would be in the last few pictures the colour appears very red in the DOA pigment for the Rust, is it.? Maybe its my monitor and set up, it's just that it appears more towards red than orange like the other two pigments.

Thanks again

Alan

Edit. Ah..... I started post from initial post, but posted late, after the other posts appeared.
c5flies
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: October 21, 2007
KitMaker: 3,684 posts
Armorama: 2,938 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 06:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I do agree that the product represents excellent value for money; however the pictures in this review make the rust pigment look to be incorrect. The pictures you have provided showing the rust pigment looks to be a red brown as opposed to the orange colour associated with rust. This will not deter me from investing in some of these products from DOA, but that rust needs some work and so cannot agree with your summation.



I think it's more that the range of colors may need to be expanded, although the beauty of pigments is the option for the user to custom mix colors. To really get a nice rust effect multiple shades are used, let's say light, medium and dark rust. This one definitely falls into the dark rust category, judging by the pictures. I'm hoping that the DOA pigments mix well, and by using some lighter earth tones the full color range will be possible.

If more browns and yellows are offered in the future, even a light, medium and dark ocher, the armor modeller should be able to find a good variety of colors.

alanmac
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 2,931 posts
Armorama: 2,852 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 06:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

trackpads will carry there complete paint and pigment range from early next month for the UK / European modelers who are interested in the DOA range if that helps at all chaps.



Andrew

Hi, I went to your site but can't seem to find the link to The Shop, and when I click on the DOA paint link I get a message about registering or something.

Alan
trackpads
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: December 17, 2008
KitMaker: 330 posts
Armorama: 284 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 06:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

trackpads will carry there complete paint and pigment range from early next month for the UK / European modelers who are interested in the DOA range if that helps at all chaps.



Andrew

Hi, I went to your site but can't seem to find the link to The Shop, and when I click on the DOA paint link I get a message about registering or something.

Alan



Sorry Alan it's just the way it is set up until it all arrives and the shop goes live,it stops ppl going though the shop and placing orders for paints and pigments that are still on there way to the UK,The shop is there and just about finished it can be viewed by members.but will not take orders at the moment.
alanmac
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 2,931 posts
Armorama: 2,852 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 06:33 AM UTC
Hi Matt

I don't want to appear pedantic, and I appreciate what you are saying about colour variation to get a rust effect but judged on images 14 and 15 the colour is nothing like any shade of rust I've ever seen.

Going by those images I'd say the Mig was the closest representation of a "rust" followed by the Bragdon but I'd pass on the DOA if somebody told me that was supposed to be rust. Funny because the shot you show of the pigment in its container does look like a rust colour through the plastic of the bottle.

Alan
alanmac
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 2,931 posts
Armorama: 2,852 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 06:36 AM UTC
[/quote]

Sorry Alan it's just the way it is set up until it all arrives and the shop goes live,it stops ppl going though the shop and placing orders for paints and pigments that are still on there way to the UK,The shop is there and just about finished it can be viewed by members.but will not take orders at the moment.[/quote]

Hi Andrew

Are you saying I have to register and become a member of Trackpads just to view the shop and its contents ?

Alan
trackpads
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: December 17, 2008
KitMaker: 330 posts
Armorama: 284 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 06:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text




Sorry Alan it's just the way it is set up until it all arrives and the shop goes live,it stops ppl going though the shop and placing orders for paints and pigments that are still on there way to the UK,The shop is there and just about finished it can be viewed by members.but will not take orders at the moment.[/quote]

Hi Andrew

Are you saying I have to register and become a member of Trackpads just to view the shop and its contents ?

Alan[/quote]

Not when it goes live and is fully stocked no.
alanmac
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 2,931 posts
Armorama: 2,852 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 06:44 AM UTC
Hi Andrew

Thanks for clarification.

Alan
trackpads
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: December 17, 2008
KitMaker: 330 posts
Armorama: 284 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 06:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Andrew

Thanks for clarification.

Alan



NP glad i could help Alan.
c5flies
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: October 21, 2007
KitMaker: 3,684 posts
Armorama: 2,938 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 06:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Matt

I don't want to appear pedantic, and I appreciate what you are saying about colour variation to get a rust effect but judged on images 14 and 15 the colour is nothing like any shade of rust I've ever seen.




Don't blame Matt for that....it was my opinion

While many agree that a bright orange is the norm for rust, a good portion of 'real' rust is darker brown/red. Google 'rust' and look at some images, images show that it will run the spectrum from yellow to dark brown. It may be that 'newer' rust is lighter and 'older' rust is darker, I don't know, I'm not a rust expert!

Anyway, my first impression was that the DOA rust was way off, but the more I look at it I find that it's a pretty good representation of a darker shade of rust. Just my opinion
alanmac
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 2,931 posts
Armorama: 2,852 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 07:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text



Don't blame Matt for that....it was my opinion

While many agree that a bright orange is the norm for rust, a good portion of 'real' rust is darker brown/red. Google 'rust' and look at some images, images show that it will run the spectrum from yellow to dark brown. It may be that 'newer' rust is lighter and 'older' rust is darker, I don't know, I'm not a rust expert!

Anyway, my first impression was that the DOA rust was way off, but the more I look at it I find that it's a pretty good representation of a darker shade of rust. Just my opinion



Hi James

Yes I already have a batch of rust images from my work in CAD rendering so I appreciate the spectrum of colours that "rust" can come under. That's my reason for agreeing with you that you need to mix colours to get a rust representation.

My point was to the "layman modeller" for want of a better expression looking to buy a "rust" pigment such as you would from Mig or the other manufacturers that give specific descriptions with their product, as opposed to say Vallejo whose new pigments just give colours, this would not "appear" to the minds eye as rust and could be disappointing. If you searched hard enough on the internet for an image I'm sure you could come up with a rust colour in a stage of chemical change that would match the DOA colour but in my opinion it isn't one that says "rust" as a perceived norm if that makes sense.

As I said, if I was looking at the bottle as shown in the images I'd buy it on the basis it was rust, but upon application judged on the other images I'd think it wasn't.

Alan

alanmac
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 2,931 posts
Armorama: 2,852 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 07:59 AM UTC




As we can see rust comes in many shades
Brian_Moore
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: October 09, 2009
KitMaker: 139 posts
Armorama: 118 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 09:03 AM UTC
Hey guys.

You want a shade of rust more to the orange end of the spectrum? Nothing is written in stone with our products like other manufacturer's products.

Give me a few days and I will develop a "bright rust" shade. I've had this on the back burner for some time now since I have been concentrating on the paint line.

Will post some pics soon.



CMOT
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
ARMORAMA
#406
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,802 posts
Armorama: 8,485 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 10:16 AM UTC
Brian please donít take this as being negative of your products, it is aimed purely at this one colour. Looking at it I do believe the colour as is would be of use to the modeller, I do however feel the colour is incorrect for a rust colour and should be renamed, and if it was my first experience of your products it would deter me from trying other products in your line.
metooshelah
#011
Visit this Community
Jerusalem, Israel
Joined: February 06, 2009
KitMaker: 1,506 posts
Armorama: 1,304 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 10:22 AM UTC
Nice and comprehensive review! enjoyed reading
Brian_Moore
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: October 09, 2009
KitMaker: 139 posts
Armorama: 118 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 03:46 PM UTC
Hey Darren,

I am not taking this negatively at all. The current rust shade is very similar to Mig's "Old Rust". A rust color towards the darker side of the shade. I am definitely working on what I call a "Bright Rust" that will be lighter and towards the Orange side of the spectrum.

I plan on adding at least two more colors to the pigments, possibly more. I do want a Bright Rust and a Lite Sand/Dust color to round them out.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated especially if it will help me to make a better product.

Now off the "lab" to get busy!

SSGToms
Visit this Community
Connecticut, United States
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,470 posts
Armorama: 2,969 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 08:20 AM UTC
Hi Gents,
Sorry, I was away visiting my father yesterday. My photos looked okay on my camera, but are way too dark and green now. That paper the pigments are on is white. The DOA rust is a dark rust, but is definitely a red brown rust and would be the first rust shade I would use. I would then layer on medium red rust and finish with bright orange -red highlights. Here is a better photo of the product. I reshot with different flash intensity until I got the paper near white:


Brian, how about a 4 color set - soot black, dark rust, medium rust, and bright rust?
SSGToms
Visit this Community
Connecticut, United States
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,470 posts
Armorama: 2,969 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 09:50 AM UTC
Well, I emptied several drawers and got out all my pigments to see what I have. I thought I only had MiG 024 Light Rust, which is what is in the review, but I found a bunch of unopened bottles in the bottom back of a drawer. here then, is all 3 MiG rust colors I have, and the DOA rust together -
Brian_Moore
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: October 09, 2009
KitMaker: 139 posts
Armorama: 118 posts
Posted: Monday, February 22, 2010 - 12:33 AM UTC
"Brian, how about a 4 color set - soot black, dark rust, medium rust, and bright rust?"

Top priority Matt. Two things to accomplish this week. A Luftwaffe set I have been promising..just about done on that one, and adding colors to the pigment line.

Should have em both ready by Friday.

TUNIS!

ANPW
Visit this Community
Maine, United States
Joined: May 18, 2006
KitMaker: 45 posts
Armorama: 43 posts
Posted: Monday, February 22, 2010 - 01:05 AM UTC
Hello Everyone

Let me simply repeat what I said in the other conversation in this forum about pigments. We put a lot of time and thought into the choosing of our pigment colors along with the mixing of tones and the extra rolling processes in their manufacture to make them finer. Our colors are recommended, mixed and used by numerous professional modelers whom work in the industry and/or publish frequently. The mixing of colors and manufacturing processes does make our pigments more expensive but you get what you are paying for.

Just look at the examples Matt placed above one the paper broken into four squares. Our rust tones, for example, allow you four accurate colors that simulate shades of rust and not red brown which is typical with store-purchased pigments that are being poured into jars and simply given names of something they are supposed to look like. Anyone can do this. Thatís why other brands can offer more for less.

I have mixed a lot of the colors for production in our range simply because I needed the tone for a model I was building to publish.

We are also the original manufacturer of pigments so I guess we have done something right if other companies are now trying to cut into our market.

Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you for taking the time to read my posting. Happy modeling and I hope to speak with all of you again soon.

Adam N. P. Wilder
MIG Productions Staff

C/ Meratondoa 18, Nave 16B
31200 Estella (Navarra)
Spain
adam@migproductions.com
www.migproductions.com

(+34) 948 555 772
discordian
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: May 28, 2009
KitMaker: 239 posts
Armorama: 94 posts
Posted: Monday, February 22, 2010 - 10:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello Everyone

Let me simply repeat what I said in the other conversation in this forum about pigments. We put a lot of time and thought into the choosing of our pigment colors along with the mixing of tones and the extra rolling processes in their manufacture to make them finer. Our colors are recommended, mixed and used by numerous professional modelers whom work in the industry and/or publish frequently. The mixing of colors and manufacturing processes does make our pigments more expensive but you get what you are paying for.

Just look at the examples Matt placed above one the paper broken into four squares. Our rust tones, for example, allow you four accurate colors that simulate shades of rust and not red brown which is typical with store-purchased pigments that are being poured into jars and simply given names of something they are supposed to look like. Anyone can do this. Thatís why other brands can offer more for less.

I have mixed a lot of the colors for production in our range simply because I needed the tone for a model I was building to publish.

We are also the original manufacturer of pigments so I guess we have done something right if other companies are now trying to cut into our market.

Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you for taking the time to read my posting. Happy modeling and I hope to speak with all of you again soon.

Adam N. P. Wilder
MIG Productions Staff

C/ Meratondoa 18, Nave 16B
31200 Estella (Navarra)
Spain
adam@migproductions.com
www.migproductions.com

(+34) 948 555 772



This is a thread about a review of DOA pigments and not bashing Mig over anything but, say, price as far as I can tell.

It kind of puts me off your company. I mean do AFV Club reps chime in about Tamiya or DML reviews saying "you get what you pay for"?

that being said - it is nice to see that product manufacturers are checking on the regular joes that model for a hobby, and not just pros.
CMOT
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
ARMORAMA
#406
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,802 posts
Armorama: 8,485 posts
Posted: Monday, February 22, 2010 - 01:58 PM UTC
Matthew could you supply a larger picture of the DOA and Mig old rust please.
Adam I have used a number of Mig's products and I feel they are very good products. However economics means if someone can provide a comparable product that gives me more product for less £ then it will be used.