login   |    register
Armor/AFV: IDF [Israeli Defense Forces]
Armor and AFVs of the IDF army from 1947-today.
Hosted by Darren Baker
IDF M1 Sherman water cans question
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,044 posts
Armorama: 13,243 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2010 - 10:19 AM UTC
She's done. See below at 21 FEB post.


As some may remember, I am building an IDF M1 Sherman from the '67 war period for a customer. The model is almost done and I am looking at putting a couple water cans on it. I can't find any pics showing any though. I am inclined to believe they were not carried. Does anyone know for sure? Also, if they were carried, would it be the US metal cans, or plastic IDF cans like on the M51s?

Any advice will be helpful. Thanks in advance.
rfbaer
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1,747 posts
Armorama: 1,586 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2010 - 10:22 AM UTC
I've got a good reference at home, I can check for you. Off the top of my head, I don't remember seeing any.....
What period are you representing?.
Get back to you tomorrow?
Yoni_Lev
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Joined: September 20, 2007
KitMaker: 861 posts
Armorama: 394 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2010 - 11:10 AM UTC
Gino,

I don't recall ever seeing a photo of an M1 with water cans. I will dig through my hard drive when I get home in a few hours, and if I find any pics, I'll post them for you.

-YL
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,044 posts
Armorama: 13,243 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2010 - 12:38 PM UTC
Thanks guys. I am not coming up with any in pics either. I think I will leave them off of it.
Yoni_Lev
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Joined: September 20, 2007
KitMaker: 861 posts
Armorama: 394 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2010 - 04:42 PM UTC
I've got nothing.

I couldn't find any pics that show water cans on the M1. That doesn't mean somewhere, somebody strapped one on, but I can't find any evidence for it in my photo stash.

-YL
Captin_Caveman_III
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Joined: October 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,069 posts
Armorama: 1,062 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 01:56 AM UTC
Most of those water can's as you all called them would have bean black or same color as the tank. in the eary 60's the cans would have bean the same color as the tank it self. Now in the late 60's to the 70's the can would have remaned black. An they would have bean mounted on the right and left sides of the hull. Here's some photo of two, a M50 and M51 at latrun museum Israel.




Finding an inaction photo of the tank is not all that hard but is hard, finding one in color from 1960.



Captin_Caveman_III
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Joined: October 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,069 posts
Armorama: 1,062 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 02:07 AM UTC


You can see the corner position for the serial number for the tank.


You can see the serial numbers pointed out and the color of the water cans in this 1973 photo.


I hope this helps a little.
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,044 posts
Armorama: 13,243 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 05:08 AM UTC
Thanks, but those are all M50 and M51 Shermans. I am building a 76mm-barreled early M1 Sherman (like below) and can't find any with water cans on them...So, I will leave them off of it.

rfbaer
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1,747 posts
Armorama: 1,586 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 05:21 AM UTC
Gino, the only pic I can find of anything resembling a can is a monument tank with a single-can rack on the left rear of the hull, but it's a monument tank, so even though it's identified as an M1, I would take it with a grain of salt. The pic is on pg 49 of Thomas Gannon's "Israeli Sherman". HVSS M1s seem to have only spare track blocks mounted on the hull sides, directly above the fenders.
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,044 posts
Armorama: 13,243 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 06:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The pic is on pg 49 of Thomas Gannon's "Israeli Sherman". HVSS M1s seem to have only spare track blocks mounted on the hull sides, directly above the fenders.



Yup, thats all I can find too. Thanks.
newfish
Visit this Community
England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: June 23, 2008
KitMaker: 2,329 posts
Armorama: 2,110 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 09:29 AM UTC
Gino as far as I know they wern't used here is a picture of a 76mm and it doesnt seem to have any water cans.

Would you mind posting a couple of pictures if you get five minutes of the Sherman?



Jaymes.

HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,044 posts
Armorama: 13,243 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 10:29 AM UTC
Yup, that picture is pretty much the exact tank I am building (minus the search light). Same unit and markings. I'll see if I can snap some pics later today. Its almost done, just need to add the tracks, tools, gear, and weather it. We'll see how far I get tonight.
Captin_Caveman_III
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Joined: October 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,069 posts
Armorama: 1,062 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 02:33 PM UTC
Yes I see an M, well that's realy a hard one to find. An yep you all are right leave the water cans' off. Here's the photo I have:


HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,044 posts
Armorama: 13,243 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 03:51 PM UTC
See completed pics below.

Here is the IDF M1 Sherman from the '67 War in the area of Jerusalem. I have combined the HVSS suspension, early turret with small loader's hatch, and fenders from the Dragon M4A3E8 "Thunderbolt VII" kit with the hull from the Dragon M4A1 Op Cobra kit to build it. It still needs the T80 steel block track, spare tracks, and gear added, and to be weathered.

As always, all comments welcomed.
Yoni_Lev
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Joined: September 20, 2007
KitMaker: 861 posts
Armorama: 394 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 09:39 PM UTC
That's pretty darn sweet, Gino. What's the main color?

-YL
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,044 posts
Armorama: 13,243 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 12:40 AM UTC
Thanks Yoni. Its coming along well. The color is from a spray can of Krylon Khaki (Beige) #2504. It is a pretty good base color.
Captin_Caveman_III
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Joined: October 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,069 posts
Armorama: 1,062 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 03:38 AM UTC
Gino,

Fine paint and build you have there M8, can't wate till the track and weathering begins. Now I have never painted any of my armor with gloss what will you use to bring it back to a dull finish? Dull Varnish or Dull Lacquer. I hear that using glass helps the decals go on better or more smoothly as we see in your build here. I just always thought the "Dull Lacquer" would lift Acrylics and Enamels. So I would always just cut the clear parts of my decals down to the color parts on the ones I could., an then cover the decal with and thined body color the fade and hide the shiny look of the decal. Could you tell me what happonds with you weathering?
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,044 posts
Armorama: 13,243 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 03:52 AM UTC
A couple coats of Testors Model Master Flat Lacquer will dull it all out. I always glosscoat before decaling and then dullcoat afterwards. I have never really had any issues with the dullcoat destroying or lifting the decals. The only times I have had issues is if you don't let it dry fully and touch the softened decal, it can then smudge of rub off. Or if you brush on the dullcoat and use too much, then it can dissolve the decal. I have never had dullcoat damage the paint at all either. As long as your paint is dry and cured, it will be fine.
rfbaer
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1,747 posts
Armorama: 1,586 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 06:12 AM UTC
Are you decanting the Krylon, or is it out of the rattle can? It looks really good, good enough that I want to try it.....
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,044 posts
Armorama: 13,243 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 06:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Are you decanting the Krylon, or is it out of the rattle can? It looks really good, good enough that I want to try it.....



I sprayed it straight out of the can. It goes on pretty well.
badger66
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: April 09, 2005
KitMaker: 251 posts
Armorama: 232 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 01:32 PM UTC
Looks good Gino
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,044 posts
Armorama: 13,243 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 01:35 PM UTC
Thanks Don. Thanks for the assist as well.
Captin_Caveman_III
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Joined: October 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,069 posts
Armorama: 1,062 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 02:25 PM UTC
Well I'll give it a shot befor I try in on my Merkava, as I have a lot of work in on her and I don't want to try something like this on as big project. I'll let you know what happons if I can get it to work on my merkava.

Thank's for the "tip"
redleg12
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: March 11, 2007
KitMaker: 872 posts
Armorama: 831 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 02:31 PM UTC
Gino - Moving along nicely. A little weathering and some shoes on that puppy and it will be a real looker

Rounds Complete!!
newfish
Visit this Community
England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: June 23, 2008
KitMaker: 2,329 posts
Armorama: 2,110 posts
Posted: Friday, February 19, 2010 - 05:18 AM UTC
Nice Sherman Gino you research payed off and the colour looks sweet. Great work.