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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
WW II German AFV Camo Datasheet/Timeline
SSGToms
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Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 08:20 AM UTC
World War II German AFV Camouflage Painting Datasheet and Timeline

1. December 1, 1927 – Nr. 17 Erdgelb-matt, Nr. 28 Gruen-matt, Nr. 18 Braun-matt.
2. November 7, 1938 – Nr. 46 Dunkelgrau covering 2/3, Nr. 45 Dunkelbraun covering 1/3.
3. July 31, 1940 – Dunkelgrau RAL 7021.
4. February 18, 1943 – Dunkelgelb RAL 7028 basecoat, Olivgrun RAL 6003, Rotbraun RAL 8017.
5. August 19, 1944 – Dunkelgelb RAL 7028 basecoat, Olivgrun RAL 6003, Rotbraun RAL 8017 in Hinterhalt – Tarnung (the “Ambush” scheme).
6. September 31, 1944 – Rotoxid primer, “sparingly applied patches” of Dunkelgelb RAL 7028, Olivgrun RAL 6003, Rotbraun RAL 8017.
7. November 20, 1944 – Olivgrun RAL 6003 basecoat, Dunkelgelb RAL 7028, Rotbraun RAL 8017 “in sharp contours”. (To go into full effect June 1, 1945).

Tropen Pattern

1. March 17, 1941 – Grunbraun RAL 8000 covering 2/3, Graugrun RAL 7008 covering 1/3.
2. March 25, 1942 – Gelbbraun RAL 8020 covering 2/3, Sandgrau RAL 7027 covering 1/3.

Dates are Inspektorate 2 order dates.
RAL Farbtonkarte of June 1932 and RAL Farbtonkarte of February 10, 1941.
Note that RAL Farbtonkarte was revised in 1953 and 1961. Current RAL numbers, colors and titles DO NOT match World War II Numbers, colors and titles.


Hopefully this answers a lot of questions.

Brian_Moore
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Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 01:29 PM UTC
An excellent resource Matt!

I will be getting in touch with you on some of these for future color additions to our paint line!
tatbaqui
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Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 05:19 PM UTC
Thanks for putting this up Matt. Would you know of reference pics as to the application of the 1927 orders? And if one is to paint it -- say using Tamiya, what best approximates the colors? Cheers -- Tat
SSGToms
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Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 - 07:35 AM UTC
Tat,

There are good photos and a color plate in Panzer Tracts 1 - 2. I couldn't find any photos at all on the web!
Looking at the actual paint in the jars, I'd say the best Tamiya match would be XF-59 Desert Yellow, XF-26 Deep Green, and XF-10 Flat Brown.
pdelsoglio
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Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 - 07:52 AM UTC
Cool reference! Short, concise and totally useful.
Thanks for sharing.
tatbaqui
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Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 - 02:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Tat,

There are good photos and a color plate in Panzer Tracts 1 - 2. I couldn't find any photos at all on the web!
Looking at the actual paint in the jars, I'd say the best Tamiya match would be XF-59 Desert Yellow, XF-26 Deep Green, and XF-10 Flat Brown.



Thanks Matt -- will head that way. Was hoping to find some from the Bundesarchiv but so far turned up none. Cheers -- Tat
Switzersland
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Posted: Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 04:51 PM UTC
Matt is a wealth of information, Keep it coming G.I.
vonHengest
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Posted: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 - 02:23 PM UTC
Thanks for the timeline info Matt, very helpful!
Removed by original poster on 07/07/10 - 01:27:19 (GMT).
vonHengest
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Posted: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 - 02:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Tat,

There are good photos and a color plate in Panzer Tracts 1 - 2. I couldn't find any photos at all on the web!
Looking at the actual paint in the jars, I'd say the best Tamiya match would be XF-59 Desert Yellow, XF-26 Deep Green, and XF-10 Flat Brown.



Thanks Matt -- will head that way. Was hoping to find some from the Bundesarchiv but so far turned up none. Cheers -- Tat



I'm not sure if this is useful to you, but Lifecolor Acrylics are supposed to be very accurate to their real life counterparts. You may want to look into them.
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 06:46 AM UTC
Good overview. I'd mention in passing that the contrasting dots that characterize the "Ambush Scheme" continued sporadically, apparently at the factories' discretion, presumably as the availability of paint, and sufficient time and manpower, allowed. For instance, it's seen on some, but not all, King Tigers and Panthers produced after Zimmerit was discontinued.
Fmatthews
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Posted: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 09:42 AM UTC
I love the Lifecolor stuff. Any idea which numbers/colors they use for these colors? I'm in the midst of a Pz1A build that I'd like to try the three color scheme on.
jaberwaki
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Posted: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 01:37 PM UTC
great info thanks.
SSGToms
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Posted: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 02:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I love the Lifecolor stuff. Any idea which numbers/colors they use for these colors? I'm in the midst of a Pz1A build that I'd like to try the three color scheme on.


As far as I know, Lifecolor do not have assigned colors for the 1927 Reichswehr Buntfarbenanstrich 3 color scheme.
DOA Paints just released a set for this scheme though. Check out Bill Cross's review on this forum here: http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=164805&page=1.
I also, in that thread, linked some photos of real boxes in the original colors.
Removed by original poster on 05/07/11 - 15:50:58 (GMT).
robw_uk
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Posted: Sunday, July 01, 2012 - 09:34 PM UTC
has anyone got any details on the "pattern" for the early Troppen scheme? is it random "blobs" as Tamiya would suggest or more deliberate patches of colour?
SSGToms
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Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 - 04:54 PM UTC
I have never discovered an illustration to specifically place the painting of the 1/3 Graugrun. However, the patches of Graugrun should not be extraordinarily large, or regular. They should not follow any lines of the vehicle.
The 1/3 Graugrun patches should be deliberate, cross planes of the vehicle, break up corners, be in scale, and not extend under the fenders.
robw_uk
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Posted: Monday, July 09, 2012 - 12:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I have never discovered an illustration to specifically place the painting of the 1/3 Graugrun. However, the patches of Graugrun should not be extraordinarily large, or regular. They should not follow any lines of the vehicle.
The 1/3 Graugrun patches should be deliberate, cross planes of the vehicle, break up corners, be in scale, and not extend under the fenders.



thanks for that... will do some planning then....
SSGToms
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Posted: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 04:20 PM UTC
You're welcome Rob, no problem.
robw_uk
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Posted: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 - 11:23 PM UTC
next question (sorry). Am buiilding a 1944 Sd.KFZ 10 (pak 38 version), The Italeri instructions call for Dunkelgelb ober Grey - is that correct (am thinking the grey is more where the Dunkelgelb is scuffed off rather than a deliberate camouflage scheme.

the pic on he box is:



which is where i get - grey=scuff from
SSGToms
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Posted: Sunday, February 10, 2013 - 08:01 PM UTC
Rob,

The SdKfz. 10/4 was produced from 1938 to 1944, so it wore both Dunkelgrau and Dunkelgelb paint jobs. Never together, however. There was never a Dark Yellow over Dark Grey pattern. It should be all dark yellow, and if you desire, you may scuff away some areas to show dark grey to depict a vehicle that was repainted in 1943. Or you could do chipping and scuffs in red oxide to depict a vehicle that came out of the factory Dark Yellow.
srmalloy
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Posted: Thursday, February 14, 2013 - 09:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Rob,

The SdKfz. 10/4 was produced from 1938 to 1944, so it wore both Dunkelgrau and Dunkelgelb paint jobs. Never together, however. There was never a Dark Yellow over Dark Grey pattern. It should be all dark yellow, and if you desire, you may scuff away some areas to show dark grey to depict a vehicle that was repainted in 1943. Or you could do chipping and scuffs in red oxide to depict a vehicle that came out of the factory Dark Yellow.



Some of the early-production Tigers issued to 'Das Reich' in Dunkelgrau base were overpainted with a camouflage pattern in Dunkelgelb (historical picture here), but I believe that this was an isolated occurrence; the standing order was, IIRC, either to apply the Olivgrün/Rotbraun camouflage over the Dunkelgrau base or to repaint the whole vehicle in Dunkelgelb and then apply the Olivgrün/Rotbraun camouflage.
robw_uk
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Posted: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 09:31 PM UTC
thanks all - went dark yellow (Vallejo "Tank Ochre") but it has come out almost green... i like the colour actually but it is not accurate by the looks of it... maybe weathering will help me bring it back....

this is the colour I have - it may be my photography but the camera is white balanced and in natural light it looks green-ish