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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Finishing and Weathering Sequence
SSGToms
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Posted: Monday, June 27, 2011 - 03:51 PM UTC
Follow the sequence at the beginning of this thread. Clear gloss - decals - clear gloss - overall washes (the whole model) - clear flat - oil and enamel effects - pigments. Then some AK fuel stains, oil stains, and rain marks.
Krieg-Hammer
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Posted: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 07:10 PM UTC
I've recently applied an oil wash using Abteilung wash brown. Was a very thinned out mix. Came out not too bad. Next I'll apply a matt varnish before I do a pin wash on nuts/bolts etc.

Quite liking oils, they apply really easy and don't need much to achieve a look. Got shadow brown for the pin wash and engine grease to add hub leaks and things on the wheels.

Straying from oils, and onto another part of weathering, I am also trying to achieve a faded paint look and light dust over the tank. Its in a Normandy camo scheme just now. I have got mig Europe dust for the pigment part at the end. However, to generally Lighten the paint scheme, pigments can't do alone. I have read modellers use Tamiya buff or so, very thinned and gradually applied to achieve this look with heavier concentrations on the side skirts and hull. Not sure if I have just answered my own question but any advice on this will be appreciated.

Thanks.
SSGToms
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Posted: Sunday, July 10, 2011 - 07:08 AM UTC
Yes Rob, you did just answer your own question! Tamiya Buff and Deck Tan are the two favorites for misting dust.
Krieg-Hammer
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Posted: Monday, July 11, 2011 - 12:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Yes Rob, you did just answer your own question! Tamiya Buff and Deck Tan are the two favorites for misting dust.



Whats the paint/thinner ratio best used for this? 20/80?? I think I might try it on the front of the model first and see how it pans out.
SSGToms
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Posted: Monday, July 11, 2011 - 06:11 AM UTC
Yeah, 20/80 sounds about right. Light misting semi-transparent coats from a distance. Build it up slowly like the real thing and STOP when you think it needs one or two more. It doesn't!
Krieg-Hammer
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Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 11:26 AM UTC
Just applied the acrylic flat varnish. I'll leave it 15 mins then throw a 2nd coat on then leave it for a while. I noticed the next stage in your weathering process is panel oil washes? What does that mean? I understand the general wash and pin wash but never came across a panel wash before.

Thanks
SSGToms
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Posted: Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 03:33 PM UTC
Panel washes have recently been re-invented and called filters. Most of these weathering methods are not new, they've just been brought to light over the internet and re-named by a group of younger talented modelers.
A panel wash (filter) is a very thin (90% thinner) wash of yellow, green, blue, etc. that is applied to a defined area or panel to tint it slightly and differ it from the rest of the vehicle. By slightly tinting various panels you can shift the base colors so that it is hardly noticed by the eye, but adds visual interest and varying tonality.
Krieg-Hammer
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Posted: Friday, July 15, 2011 - 02:28 AM UTC
So in effect, I could do my panel washes with a very thinned out solution of Tamiya Buff to lighten/fade the top of the turret and hull of my model? Brushed on or airbrushed to start the weathering process?

Is it best to do this before a pin wash?
SSGToms
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Posted: Friday, July 15, 2011 - 06:29 AM UTC
No, that would give it a dusty effect.
By the way, all of the steps I listed are options. If you can't be bothered trying to lightly tint certain areas in order to shift the color slightly, skip it!
Krieg-Hammer
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Posted: Friday, July 15, 2011 - 09:31 AM UTC
Lightly tinting is something I want to achieve but not sure how to do it. Fading paint seems that it cant work well or end up a disaster.

I want to try and achieve a faded paint work where the hard edges of the came scheme sort of become soft edged.
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Posted: Friday, July 15, 2011 - 02:36 PM UTC
Well, lightly tinting is doing a filter, as described. If you want to tie everything together, that's generally done with overall washes, or with a light overspray as you thought of.
spitfire303
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2011 - 10:13 AM UTC
I've seen seen you guys speaking about flat varnishes like MM acrylic, Dullcote or Vallejo matt. I have all of them but used for now only those from MM. I think that using the acrylic just out of the bottle (not thinned) would give the best results but... how do you apply it? I always use a thinner to pass it through the airbrush If I don't it will clog it. If you don't use a thinner you simply brush it on? In thin layers? Just not sure here. I don't like brushing on any varnish/paint on my model as I fear it would react with the acrylic paints under it.

thx for your help

spit
GALILEO1
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Posted: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 08:30 AM UTC
This is one great thread...And one which I've read completely just now again for the third time!

I do have one question for Matt...Is there a particular reason you choose to use oils for your washes/filters/pin washes as opposed to enamels? I ask mainly because, like you, I've always used oils for these steps but I'm now thinking about giving a few of AK Interactive weathering products a try. Being that AK's products are mainly all enamel based I am curious as to what the main difference between these mediums might be when it comes to these washes, etc.

Thanks,

Rob
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Posted: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 07:19 PM UTC
Pawel,

Model Master and Vallejo can be thinned for airbrushing. I always airbrush my clear coats, be they gloss or flat. I'm not sure you can get a thin, even enough coat with a brush.
SSGToms
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Posted: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 07:42 PM UTC
Hi Rob,
Oils take a while to dry and can be blended and mixed with great nuance. You can create totally different effects with the same paint depending on how you apply it. The subtlety and tones you can develop with oils just make them the perfect medium for these types of weathering. Plus, one $6 tube can last a lifetime.
I've been buying the AK products as they come out. I was hooked from the first bottle. Every effect is easy to do and results are superlative. I have worked the AK streaks and stains in with my oil stages. I apply some AK effects in small focus areas while I'm doing the oils. Other AK effects I hold until the oils are dry, then apply them. It's nice because the AK effects don't stand out like they are painted on top, you can work them and blend them as solidly or opaquely as you want, yet they don't get absorbed and lost in the oil treatments. I've tried all the AK products with, and over, oils and they work together beautifully. Try them, you're going to like what you see!
GALILEO1
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Posted: Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 02:30 AM UTC
Thanks a lot., Matt!! You made it all 'click' to me just now. Working with AK products in conjunction with the oils sounds like the way to go. Where, in your weathering sequence, would you put using the AK products? Just curious...

Thanks again!

Rob
Karl187
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Posted: Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 02:46 AM UTC
Rob-

Adding to what Matt has already said- I tend to use the AK Products after any oil stages have dried. As he says though- there is no realy impediment to using them during the oil stage if you have a particular effect in mind or if you want to experiment.
Take AK Streaking Grime as an example- I apply it after the oil stage and work on it until I have the desired effect. For example- in the latest tank I finished, a JGSDF Type 90, I added Streaking Grime runs in a few places and feathered them until they were a faint stain. I then did some other weathering and after I had fixed some pigments I went back and added fresh staining to a couple of places so that it would stand out. Hence- depending on what you want to achieve, you can pretty much add weathering like AK products whenever you want.

Personally I like experimenting with them to see what effects can be created at different stages.

Hope this helps a bit.
GALILEO1
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Posted: Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 03:56 AM UTC
Thanks for the feedback, Karl! It helped a lot. Will try this for sure!

Rob
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Posted: Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 06:42 AM UTC
Rob,

You can apply AK Interactive products anywhere between
6) Acrylic clear flat
and
12) Pigments
Then some can go over pigments, particularly fuel and oil stains.....
GALILEO1
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Posted: Friday, July 22, 2011 - 02:47 AM UTC
Excellent, thanks, Matt!

Rob
Krieg-Hammer
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Posted: Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 06:02 AM UTC
Used Mig Productions Europe Dust on the tracks and hull. Came out darker than I thought. Used turps to fix it. Maybe the wrong stuff? The rust effects came out ok.
gzukowski
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Posted: Monday, August 29, 2011 - 01:45 AM UTC
Excellent thread Matt! I've been out of modeling for about 35 years, and have gotten back into it about a year ago. So much has changed! I'm working on my fourth tank now and will apply your process as it seems very logical. I had already figured some of this stuff out myself, but this thread has provided much more info and has definitely saved me some time! Thanks again!
SSGToms
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Posted: Monday, August 29, 2011 - 06:04 PM UTC
You're welcome Gene, welcome to Armorama, and don't be afraid to ask questions!
SSGToms
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Posted: Monday, August 29, 2011 - 06:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Used Mig Productions Europe Dust on the tracks and hull. Came out darker than I thought. Used turps to fix it. Maybe the wrong stuff? The rust effects came out ok.


Rob, if it's too dark, you can usually scrub it off with white spirit and try a lighter pigment.
gzukowski
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Posted: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 07:43 AM UTC
I'm working on a tank and am using your process...so far, so good. I clear coated with future after decals (they really do look like they're painted on!) and am now focusing on the overall oil wash. How is this different than pin washes? For the overall wash, should I focus on "smathering" the whole model, allowing the wash to fill in all the nooks and cranies, and wipe off the rest? I see the pin wash comes after matte finish coat, so that it doesn't run all over the place. Is that to re-emphasize anything the overall wash missed? Would a darker tone be better for this? Thanks in advance for your help!