login   |    register
Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
Hosted by Darren Baker
M1114
Boggie
Visit this Community
Newfoundland, Canada
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 1,365 posts
Armorama: 1,327 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 12:19 PM UTC
Peter thanks for antenna explanation, that is pretty cool technology that can do that. Here's another one for you Peter, SINCGARS again?



With all the anti IED gear in the world some will always get caught.



And for the continued interest in these doors, here is a good shot of the inside of one. Looks more like a vault or a safe.


USArmy2534
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Joined: January 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,716 posts
Armorama: 1,864 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 02:38 PM UTC
Thats a SATCOM. In the very right interior, you can see a SINCGARS radio in its normal place.

Jeff
Boggie
Visit this Community
Newfoundland, Canada
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 1,365 posts
Armorama: 1,327 posts
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2007 - 12:01 PM UTC
How about the antenna on the hood. Is that a combo Satcom and SINCGARS?
Thanks
Bill
USArmy2534
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Joined: January 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,716 posts
Armorama: 1,864 posts
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2007 - 01:20 PM UTC
No, I really don't know what kind of SATCOM antenna that is, but the SINCGARS antenna is nothing more than the tall radio aerial at the back of the truck. If there is one radio there, the antenna is the normal antenna on the right rear of the armor hatchback, if there are two radios a second antenna needs to be mounted and there are multiple points to do so, but never in the front. Let me see if I can find a photo or two to illustrate it.

Jeff
USArmy2534
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Joined: January 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,716 posts
Armorama: 1,864 posts
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2007 - 01:46 PM UTC
As far as I can tell, these are all SINCGARS mounts. I couldn't tell you why they are mounted in different places, but the most common secondary mount is on the left side of the rear of the vehicle.

EDIT - ok, one exception, second pic, left side, forward-most antenna isn't a SINCGARS antenna, but I don't know what it is.









Jeff
Boggie
Visit this Community
Newfoundland, Canada
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 1,365 posts
Armorama: 1,327 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 12:37 AM UTC
Jeff
These pictures are excellent. I especially like the last one with the mud splashed up on the back, great details. I also like the antenna securing lines I haven't seen these before on HMMWV's. When did you start seeing the "don't shoot me shields" showing up in Iraq. On some vehicles they seem to be plate and on others they seem only to be a way to post the sign. The second left quarter view has a short sewer pipe type antenna right behind the "stay back" sign. All good information for details, thanks Jeff.

I just received the Big Ed Eduard PE set for the Academy 1025...by mistake. I have a stack of Tamiya HMMWV's. Can the Academy set be used with the Tamiya sets without a lot of grief? I also have one Tamiya set for the 1025 but I don't want to break into the Academy set to rob this and that until I know I can salvage most of the set for the other builds, any experience out there? Also does anyone know of a PE set for the 1114?
Thanks
Bill
paxtonm
Visit this Community
Ohio, United States
Joined: February 06, 2007
KitMaker: 89 posts
Armorama: 61 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 02:16 PM UTC
The other "combo" antenna is for the PSC-5D radio that does secure digital voice and digital data sattelite transmission.

Michael
Boggie
Visit this Community
Newfoundland, Canada
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 1,365 posts
Armorama: 1,327 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:17 AM UTC
Michael
Thanks very much for that. I'll do a search to see what I can find out about that system.
Bill
USArmy2534
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Joined: January 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,716 posts
Armorama: 1,864 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 01:36 AM UTC
I don't recall specifically when the 'Don't Shoot Me' shields started showing up, I think about late 2004, 2005ish. They are in the Concord book, so sometime after the build up of 1114s began.

I honestly have never built the Academy kit, much less the PE for the kit. I know it is smaller than the Tamiya kit, so I'm betting the PE is small also, but there is probably some stuff you can use without it being noticed. As for M1114 PE, there is none that I know of, except for MIG's new comprehensive M1114 release which includes the conversion, the wheels, a PE turret and with the exception of initial releases, the armor below the door will be PE as well.

If you haven't yet, check this out: PMMS humvee kit review

Jeff
Boggie
Visit this Community
Newfoundland, Canada
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 1,365 posts
Armorama: 1,327 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 04:43 AM UTC
Jeff,
I was looking at the PE this am and you are right, everything is smaller but seat belts, gun details are ok. I have purchased the new Mig set but I await its arrival from France. I did some searching closer to home last night. I found your 1114 build! Did you finish that? How did you cope with the warp in the Mig M1114 roof? I read here some body was annoyed that the very expensive piece of resin was warped, warm water resolved his problems. I'm hoping this new kit doesn't have such a pronounced warp. During my search I see there was a" Humvees start your engines thread" and reading it was very entertaining and insightful. Some beautiful Humvees were made, a great resource too but some of the photo links were dead.. I saw where other modelers were having the same issues as I am having now and even solved my smoke launcher wiring dilemma.
I'll go back in the books I have to see what the chronology of the "don't shoot me" shields are.
Thanks
Bill
USArmy2534
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Joined: January 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,716 posts
Armorama: 1,864 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 11:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I have purchased the new Mig set but I await its arrival from France.



Mig Jimenez is sending me a sample of the kit, so I should have a review of it up here shortly after that.


Quoted Text

I found your 1114 build! Did you finish that?


No, its sitting on my bench collecting dust. I'm at school during the fall and spring and working every day at 40+ hours a week, so free time is limited and spent with friends, so I haven't gotten around to working on it. I figure once I graduate and settle down a bit, I'll get back into the full swing of things.


Quoted Text

How did you cope with the warp in the Mig M1114 roof?



I honestly don't recall having much of a warp. The biggest problem that I had was a lack of reference to the rear bulkhead that screwed me up setting the armored roof as well as the seat (another huge problem because for some reason the seats sit too high.)

During my search I see there was a" Humvees start your engines thread" and reading it was very entertaining and insightful. Some beautiful Humvees were made, a great resource too but some of the photo links were dead.. I saw where other modelers were having the same issues as I am having now and even solved my smoke launcher wiring dilemma.[/quote]

I forget how much is in that thread, but also do a search for Pete Becerra's (EPI)'s humvee thread if you haven't already. He and I were sort of building ours at the same time and sharing information back and forth. He had a number of technical schematics from the unclassified maintainence manual. I'll see if I can find the link to his photobucket page.

Here is mine There isn't much in here that you probably haven't seen already, but I think there are a few things that you may like to see.

Jeff
Boggie
Visit this Community
Newfoundland, Canada
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 1,365 posts
Armorama: 1,327 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 12:09 AM UTC
James,Jeff, Michael and Jason
Michael I did a search for the MBMMR-PSC-5 Radio
http://www.raytheon.com/newsroom/photogal/00500228_3.htm
http://www.special-operations-technology.com/article.cfm?DocID=978
and you are correct about the antenna in the picture through the window of the HMMWV. What I have not seen is how the MBMMR-PSC-5 Radio and SATCOM are mounted above the SINCGARS radios.
I got out all the Pro Art SINCGARS yesterday and it is indeed a very complete set. The set that comes with the DUMVEE conversion is only a small part of the other set. The DUMVEE set has depicted one digital and one analog SINCGARS set in one tray that would have two antenna out back is that right Jeff?
In some SOF HMMWV's I've seen( and heard of spoken about here) there is a stack of communications equipment encased in a box (rack) which encases the SINCGARS and I assume the MBMMR-PSC-5 Radio and the SATCOM is this right? Jeff you recognized the SATCOM unit in the photo through the window. Also these units require yet another antenna (the one pictured looking through the window).
Does anyone have a picture or link looking head on to show the rack full of the SOF kit? I have seen side views and partial views but nothing so I could clearly model it.
Thanks
PS. in another forum a poster was encouraged to cite the name of the photographer and the source of the photograph as a form of courtesy, is that required here as well, I'd like to give credit where credit is due.
USArmy2534
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Joined: January 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,716 posts
Armorama: 1,864 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 03:00 AM UTC
I think that if there is one analog and one digital radio, there'd be two antennas, but I'm not too sure about that. Can any of the prior service guys confirm that?

I'm not familar with SATCOMs either, but I know that a SATCOM will need an antenna, but it wouldn't be the radio aerial like a SINCGARs would need. you were wondering about the hookup. Look closely from the picture and you'll notice a wire leading from the SATCOM antenna on the hood to the inside. Where it enters, I haven't a clue. But you'll also notice in the same picture a SINCGARs radio on the right side. That'd have its own antenna (in aerial form) in the back of the vehicle

Jeff
Boggie
Visit this Community
Newfoundland, Canada
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 1,365 posts
Armorama: 1,327 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 04:32 AM UTC
I hadn't looked at the Pro Art web site very closely before but when I checked the SINCGARS image icon I got some nice closeup images of a model that they use to represent the resin set.

And this side on view of what I assume must be a SATCOM/ MBMMR-PSC-5 Radio set????? Anyone?


So on a HMMWV that's out on patrol for days at a time it may have a digital and analog SINCGARS, (two antennae) a MBMMR-PSC-5 for communications between localized vehicles in the sqaud (one antenna), a SATCOM (one antenna) and a GPS (one antenna). This thing will look like a porcupine!
An interesting thread I was reading when seb43 was in the early stages of his fabulous M1078 build, he was asked about having all the radios that he wanted depicted and "Heavy Arty" confirmed that for a vehicle out on it's own it would have a lot of communication systems. Thats what's got me all riled up on antennas and coms this last while.
I have followed up the links to your build, as well Pete Becerra's thanks for that Jeff. Your solutions to your various problems doing the 1114 build will help me out a lot when I start that one. It'll be great to see it completed.
Best
Bill

USArmy2534
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Joined: January 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,716 posts
Armorama: 1,864 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 06:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

This thing will look like a porcupine!



If you are doing an SF vehicle, then yes, its liable to look like that. Most GPSs are small hand held devices attached to the interior of the vehicle. If you are referring to the BFT, then there is an antenna for that, but I'm not sure how many SF guys uses a BFT, I know thats more of a line unit thing. Line units, given their mission and proximity to a forward base, more than likely won't have SATCOMs and will rely on intersquad communications (small handheld iCom radios and SINCGARS radios).


Quoted Text

have followed up the links to your build, as well Pete Becerra's thanks for that Jeff. Your solutions to your various problems doing the 1114 build will help me out a lot when I start that one. It'll be great to see it completed.



Well what I used constantly and based my build off of was Terry Ashley's build review. It doesn't cover everything, hence my problems, but it went a long way in helping me out.
http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/mig/mp35254const.htm

Jeff
Boggie
Visit this Community
Newfoundland, Canada
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 1,365 posts
Armorama: 1,327 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 11:01 AM UTC
Jeff I have downloaded the article and printed it off as well. I began some painting today, feels nice to be at that stage. I'm still not sure which version of an SF vehicle I'll do, so many to choose from. I'm kinda liken this one lately.

Bill
Boggie
Visit this Community
Newfoundland, Canada
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 1,365 posts
Armorama: 1,327 posts
Posted: Friday, August 03, 2007 - 09:35 AM UTC
Jeff
I just unpacked my new Mig M1114 conversion from Blast, very fast service, faster than if I ordered it in Canada! No warp this time and a cleaner cast all around.
Bill
airbornematt
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: September 10, 2005
KitMaker: 119 posts
Armorama: 93 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 09:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Matthew
Good to hear from the man inside...the M1114. I'd like to see a real close up of those huge door knobs. Is the rig you're in the ones with the aquarium tops? I'd be interested to see a view from inside the cupola to see how the MG is attached, and the general layout of armor attachments to the weapons ring. There are few pictures from an insiders point of view in the 1114's so anything thats not restricted would help a modeler build one more accurately would help.
Are you using the SINCARS radio as well? I've seen a few current images the use of laptop type screens in the console area, I suspect the navigation communications set up is pretty fancy these days.



Play safe
Bill



Hey Bill,

I work on pics of those area's for you and everyone on here. M1114's go through alot of upgrades through the year, so sometimes it's hard to keep up. We don't use the aquarium type tops anymore, they have given way to different turret's now. SINGARS remains the every present radio in all M1114's. The laptop you're seeing is blue force tracker as someone had explained in this thread. I'll work on those pics but in the mean time here's a couple pics of my unit's M1114's


cahilj
Visit this Community
Kansas, United States
Joined: November 30, 2006
KitMaker: 68 posts
Armorama: 63 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 11:41 PM UTC
Well, I've come to the party late again..... mission first!

Most everything has been answered, but here you go-

smoke launchers- there is a single control box mounted to the ceiling at the center of the window. Each corner is fired independently. I think it was Pete that had posted pics of it a while back. Search for "smoke launchers" or something similar.

radios- as far as I know, it is possible to mount an analog and digital SINCGARS in the same base, but I've never seen it done. Most units have all of one type of SINCGARS, not both. They both do exactly the same thing, so using two different types would make it harder on the guys in the truck. (off topic- I've been in almost 10 years now, so I've used both the old and new ones, but newer soldiers have only used the digital radios. I was getting set for a convoy once and had to have the radio checked prior to leaving. We had an analog one. The guy climbed in the truck and took one look at the radio, and said- "I have no idea how to operate that". Good thing I know a bit about them or we would have been without a radio.... ) I can't give you any help with the SATCOM, but I can tell you that I'm pretty sure it can mount in the top slot of the radio mounting base (in place of the SINCGARS). I have seen some other types of radios mounted there, but I'm not sure what type they are, or if they were just stuck there or actually connected for power/antenna.

When I got my MIG kit, the roof and partition were warped beyond repair. I ended up modifying the Tamiya roof to work. Other than that, I really didn't have any fitment issues. Heres the link to my build.

I really wish Don at Prime Portal could put the pics I gave him back up. There was alot of interior stuff as well as underside pics too.
Boggie
Visit this Community
Newfoundland, Canada
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 1,365 posts
Armorama: 1,327 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 11:49 PM UTC
Mathew and I appreciate your contribution, by the number of visitors to this thread so do a lot of other Armorama members.
I was trying to imagine what peripheral vision is like for the man behind the gun. Shield on each side and a small area along the sight line to the target. Even with the vision blocks you only have a very narrow field of view. Are both turrets the same in your photos or is the top one more open. It could be the angle of your photo that makes the top one look more open and the lower photo more enclosed?
Do you have the same issues with moving the weapons ring that they did in Afghanistan? In the "Afghanistan Hummers" thread a service man said that if the HMMWV was on anything but level ground it was hard to rotate the shielded weapons ring.
The colour of the glass in the windscreen, is that because the glass is coated like the vision blocks in M1's and Strykers or is it just because it is very thick?
It some one had the time to model each variation to the HMMWV it would be a great campaign challenge!
Stay safe and keep us posted on those unusual variants will you?
Bill
Edit
James good to hear from you. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, NEVER late at this party. Seeing your build (and Jeff's) of the 1114 helped me sort out mine. I will hunt down the smoke launcher details and I appreciate your observations.
Any new progress on your M1114 I'd like to see them.
Are the images you gave to Prime Portal still being held up?
Whats with that Don please post the pics.
Thanks again James.
Bill
airbornematt
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: September 10, 2005
KitMaker: 119 posts
Armorama: 93 posts
Posted: Friday, August 10, 2007 - 09:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Mathew and I appreciate your contribution, by the number of visitors to this thread so do a lot of other Armorama members.
I was trying to imagine what peripheral vision is like for the man behind the gun. Shield on each side and a small area along the sight line to the target. Even with the vision blocks you only have a very narrow field of view. Are both turrets the same in your photos or is the top one more open. It could be the angle of your photo that makes the top one look more open and the lower photo more enclosed?
Do you have the same issues with moving the weapons ring that they did in Afghanistan? In the "Afghanistan Hummers" thread a service man said that if the HMMWV was on anything but level ground it was hard to rotate the shielded weapons ring.
The colour of the glass in the windscreen, is that because the glass is coated like the vision blocks in M1's and Strykers or is it just because it is very thick?
It some one had the time to model each variation to the HMMWV it would be a great campaign challenge!
Stay safe and keep us posted on those unusual variants will you?
Bill



Hey Bill,
Both turrets are the same, it's just the trickery of angle I shot them at plus the sun shade on the bottom one. The shield's make for some sore muscles after a mission fo rthe gunner's. They are pretty heavy with the added armor. The tinit on the glass is because it's thick and dingy. These pics were after a recent sand/wind storm we had.
Boggie
Visit this Community
Newfoundland, Canada
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 1,365 posts
Armorama: 1,327 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 03:14 AM UTC
Matt thanks for clarifying those things. I see the small BTF antenna on the hood. The friend or foe air recognition panel, I'm surprised these are still used. Are you still using the SINCGARS radios or something new? I understand if you can't say.
Stay safe Matt
Bill
USArmy2534
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Joined: January 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,716 posts
Armorama: 1,864 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 09:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Matt thanks for clarifying those things. I see the small BTF antenna on the hood. The friend or foe air recognition panel, I'm surprised these are still used. Are you still using the SINCGARS radios or something new? I understand if you can't say.
Stay safe Matt
Bill



I'm not sure why they still are using them too other than the obvious. I do know the orange VS-17 panels are still used quite often in Afghanistan.

Jeff
USArmy2534
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Joined: January 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,716 posts
Armorama: 1,864 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 10:57 AM UTC
Ok, so I've got a question. Anyone know what kind of radios the Iraqi Army uses in their M1114s? I can't imagine they are using SINCGARS but then again, I couldn't entirely believe they were buying uparmored humvees, so....

If anyone has any interior shots of an IA humvee, I'd be interested in seeing those too.

Jeff
Boggie
Visit this Community
Newfoundland, Canada
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 1,365 posts
Armorama: 1,327 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 11:47 AM UTC
Jeff
I sort of got the impression that the FOF panels were for rural situations not the city streets, especially when on the hood where only aircraft can use them. It could be one of those regulations or perhaps they aren't in the way so nobody bothers with them. Clearly with the IED set up this vehicle is hunting for and trying to avoid IEDs, in the urban theater, am I close? I have seen these massive 1114's in photographs in the remote Afghanistan but without the IED details.
Jeff does your other question about the radios betray what you're going to do with your M1114 update set from Mig??
Good to hear from you again.
Bill